Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA: recommended MC3000 parameters for charging/discharging in order to reach nominal capacity?

As per the subject. During my investigation of the CyanSky BL1834U battery, I found the NCR18650GA to be the OEM battery closest to it, and therefore started investigating it more fully. In summary, I’m interested in finding the following parameters:

  • Recommended discharge current, in order to reach its nominal capacity;
  • Recommended discharge cut-off voltage (ie, at what voltage the battery discharge should be stopped, again in order to reach the nominal capacity;
  • Recommended charge termination current (so the battery is maximally charged and will, during discharge, reach the nominal capacity).

I did the obligatory search here in BLF and found this review of the NCR18650GA by the legendary @HKJ, but it did not answer all my questions, so I started digging deeper, and by the grace of Google I was able to find a 2-page short spec sheet (archive), as well as a longer (17-pages!) “draft specification”(archive). Additionally, the longer document is dated explicitly as 2015-01-15, and while the short document shows no explicit date, it can be seen from in the PDF metadata a creation date of 2017-02-14 (so the shorter document is about 2 years more recent).

Here’s what I’ve been able to gleam after reading both:

  • Recommended discharge current: the short document doesn’t mention it explicitly, but on the first graph (p.2) it can be seen the discharge current that gives the rated 3400mAh capacity is 2A; the longer document does mention it explicity as 1.675A. I would use 1.675A.

  • Recommended discharge cut-off voltage: again the short document doesn’t mention it explicitly, but again at the same graph that all discharge tests terminate at 2.5V; the longer document does mention it explicitly also at 2.5V, so they’re in agreement here and 2.5V it is.

  • Recommended charge termination current: this is where things get weird:

    • the longer document doesn’t mention that at all, but describes a “Full charge” (p.7) as: “The battery is charged at 1.675A constant current until the voltage reaches 4.20V. The current is then reduced to keep a constant voltage of 4.20V. The total charge time is 4.0 hours at 25°C”.
      I interpret this (in terms of MC3000 charging parameters) as using the smallest possible charge termination current (0.01A = 10mA in the app) and setting a timer cut-off of 4 hours.
    • The shorter document states, at the top of the same above-mentioned graph, “Charge :CC-CV:1.675A-4.2V(67mA cut) at 25℃” which agrees with the longer document in terms of charge current and target voltage, but explicitly indicates a “cut” current of 67mA, which I interpret as being the same as a “charge termination current”.
    • Additionaly, the shorter document does state on p.1 “Charging time Std. 270 min”, which is 4.5 hours and not 4.0 as in the longer document.

As y’all can see, The first 2 parameters I’m looking for are pretty clear, but the third is anything but, as it seems these 2 documents recommend three(!) different charge-termination approaches:

a) charge the battery with constant current 1.675A (1.68A in the MC3000) up to 4.2V, and then reduce current to keep that voltage until 4.0 hours total charging time;
b) ditto, until 4.5 hours total charging time;
c) Use 67mA (0.07A in the MC3000) termination current and limit total charging time to 4.5h;

Given that (c) is what can be inferred from the newest document (see above), I’m tempted to use it. What would you folks do?

TIA!

1 Thank

If you are trying to compare it to other 18650s then don’t change any parameters. Test everything exactly the same. If you’re trying to do something else then let us know when you get to 500 cycles.

1 Thank

Thanks, but what I’m trying to do is rather to validade whether it really has 3400mAh as per its specs, specially in the case of my (apparently rewrapped) BL1834U: Does anyone know what cell the Cyansky BL1834U battery uses internally, or otherwise its detailed specs?

Okay I just read all of that and responded in that thread. My answer above still stands. The original battery did not have a charging port welded onto the top of it. So the results are already going to be different. HKJ and other serious testers are always going to test two or more subjects at the same time. If you’re not doing that then I wouldn’t bother trying to get extremely technical.

Agreed. That’s why I’m going to ask @Mandrake50 (who won the other flashlight+battery in the same GAW that I did, and who also owns an MC3000 charger) to team up with me for this testing, as soon as CyanSky replaces the much worse battery they sent him by mistake. Surely it will not be as scientific as an @HKJ review, but should be good enough for people wanting to know how good their BL1834U battery is (to say nothing of their flashlight).

I think is too low. If the battery is not very good you risk the batteries goes to zero and we know is not good. I think you can try to 2.8v/3.0V.

1 Thank

How should it go to zero when discharging is stopped at 2.5 V (under load)?

1 Thank

It’s not a rule but has happened to me in the past that some batteries did not hold a charge below 2,5V. Probably the batteries was bad. You are more expert than me so if you have to suggest something i am here to follow you

1 Thank

That would indicate the battery was already damaged prior to the test. If you discharge to 2.5 V it should slowly recover a bit after removing the load.

2 Thanks

It could also indicate a battery with a protection circuit set to 2.5V; not the case with the plain NCR18650GA (the protected version has the PBT suffix), but considering that the battery I’m interested in finding more about (the CyanSky BL1834U, as per my OP) is both button-top and comes with a USB-charging circuit, and considering all USB-ported 18650 batteries in Parametrek are also protected, I think @Light_Veteran’s point is a valid one, despite 2.5V being a bit too high to trigger a protection circuit.

Anyway, accidentally activating the battery’s protection circuit is not a problem for me, as I will be testing it on my MC3000 for which I record full telemetry, and then I will be able to see at exactly what voltage the protection was activated and then (after resetting the protection) will be able to test again up to (but without reaching) that voltage.