I’ve been trying to do something similar, but with light bulbs instead of individual LEDs. I find that I can get pretty good color rendition by mixing a couple cool white bulbs with a couple warm white bulbs in a single 4-bulb lamp. It may not be high-CRI exactly, but at least it’s wide-spectrum and makes a lot of different colors show up well.
It’d be nice if Cree sold bulbs which had a wide mixture of tints in a single bulb… like maybe… 1S, 4C, 6A, and 8D. Just repeat those over and over until the desired number of emitters is reached, and it’d make a nice wide-spectrum light.
That said, simply mixing their 2700K and 5000K bulbs seems to do a pretty good job. The combined output looks much nicer to me than either one alone. The combination also appears to show color better than my 4500K 92CRI Nichia 219 light, despite probably having a lower CRI.
Underexposed, on white paper, clockwise from top - 1A, 3D, 7A1:
The little XT-E can't keep up, but the light it puts out is nice (it makes an earlier version using 1A+2B+3D look like poo). I can't tell the pics of this thing from pics with MTG2 when the beam pattern isn't visible in the shot which is why I haven't posted any - I can't tell which is which. I now have a small pile of XPG2 7C4s to try in place of the XTE so the individual tints should be similar but with more output from the one at 2900-3000K.
I like it. I don't care much about the overall color temp, but what bugs me is when there's an obvious amount of some color other than white that's easily noticeable - blue, purple, green, yellow... These (specifically, that one combo above) doesn't have any stray colors in it anywhere, I guess the bad stuff in one LED cancels out bad stuff in the others.
I still haven't built another one with 1A+3D+7C4 yet. But I have a pretty good idea now what it will be like.
In XML2s I've always been a little annoyed by the 3C tint, not sure why, it just looks 'wrong' somehow. The 3B, though really not much different, seems much much nicer. That's what I used in the 'Securitying' SRK clone thing, it just looks like a whole lot of very bright light, the tint somehow just seems invisible. The 3C isn't.
I like the 1/3/7 tint mixing idea. I think I might like 1/4/8 better, though I’d have to see it to be able to really know. I think it would provide something like 38% 6500K light, 33% 4500K light, and 29% 2700K light… for an overall average around 4700K with a nice wide spectrum overall.
It wouldn’t be high-CRI, but in my experience my eyes prefer wide-spectrum over high-CRI. When I’ve mixed bulbs of 2700K and 6500K (or 2700K and 5000K), the result looked better to me than my Nichia 219 light (4500K 92CRI).
One advantage to this kind of set up is that 3 x XML - 3 x 18650 is more suitable to a nanjg with an input voltage mod than 1 x MT-G2 - 3 x 18650. Note I said input voltage not Zener. I like the way you guys are thinking. Anybody consider sending a light to Texaspyro to see if he can measure actual output wavelengths of these combinations?
I was initially rather tempted to do a triple S3 with Nichia 219 emitters, but apparently the output on that is a bit … lacking. Max output of ~500 lm, even with three emitters driven to max spec. Sigh. It would be an awful lot of extra mass for something not much better than a 1xAA light like L3 L10-219 or D25A-219.
However, 3 x XP-G2 with a wide range of tints… that could be fun.
It could probably burst up to 1400lm, and the output probably looks even better than a Nichia 219. I’m glad I didn’t go with my first thought; it would have been quite a missed opportunity.
Great thread, Thanks RaceR86. I will try mixing some up in my Supfire M6 I have 3 de-domed t6’s stuck in there and its greenish, but it’s good for 400m of throw after resistor mod/coated lens. I tend to prefer nw on the rosie side like the 219 or xp-g2 4c,but I don’t want to give up much throw and get plenty of spill from the m6. So I’m thinking 2 5B1’s and a 2B all de-domed.
As long as you de-dome you always have the risk of getting greenish tint, its quite common. Based on what I have seen, I would say the the emitters that ends on A and D are better candidates for avoiding green tint. If you would like to avoid/minimize greenish tint, I would also suggest to keep one domed emitter that ends on A or D because these emitters should have less green/yellow in them.
Im not sure what type of temperature you want to end up with, but here are some examples for a NW with tint around 4500K or a bit higher. They also show how you can mix different emitters and end up with pretty much the temperature you desire.
2x XM-L2 U2 1A dedomed + XM-L2 T6 4D - should roughly give you around 4800K
2x XM-L2 U2 1D dedomed + XM-L2 T6 4D - should roughly give you around 4650K
2x XM-L2 T6 3A dedomed + XM-L2 U2 1D - should roughly give you around 4400K
I think the two first examples are better combinations to mix, or safer choices then the last one. Not because of temperature (which is a matter of taste), but simply because the tint of the two dedomed emitters are closer to the third emitter. The larger the tint spread is, the larger tint difference can be seen on the outer spill edge in a light like the SRK.
You might want to see post 29 for a more visual example.
Personally I don't really recommend the 2C for de-doming. I have two single emitter and one tripe emitter throwers with it. Just built them and have not been able to use them much yet. First impression are that I prefer their temperature over the 1A, but I also found them to be a bit on the yellow side, considering that its a CW emitter. Im not sure sure they will de-dome that nicely. But with tint mixing there is hope for everything. Mixed with a 4D, they could become nice. Or use an even more rosy emitter like a 6A1 if you are not happy with the combo.
FWIW, I’ve got parts sitting in front of me to make a mixed-tint Blackshadow Terminator. I just need to make time to put it together.
I think the default BST XM-L2 tint is a 2-something. It looks warmer than my 1A light and cooler than a 3C, and fairly close to a 2B. But I want to give it wide-spectrum output instead.
The emitters I’m using were chosen primarily because they were the widest spread I could get from RMM and/or IS:
XM-L2 U1 1A
XM-L2 T6 3C
XM-L2 T4 5B1
XM-L2 T4 7B3
I was hoping for 1/3/6/8 instead, but nobody carries 8* tints. And generally there isn’t much choice about specific shades in the 5*/6*/7* tints, so I went with what was easy to get.
The BST tends to have somewhat ringy beams thanks to its deep stainless steel bezels, so I added DC-Fix to the lenses to smooth out brightness and tint. With wide-spectrum output, I think it’ll be a great flooder… as soon as I get the emitters swapped.
I included lots and lots of details and pictures, and attempted some color comparison shots. It turned out well and produces very vivid color, but I wonder if a wider mix (0/2/6/8?) might turn out better than 1/3/5/7.
My original idea a while back was to ask RMM to do a S3-triple with three different tints, to get a wide-spectrum light the size of a cigar. But I kinda wanted to do it myself, and I found the BST on a great sale so I used it as my host. However, RMM should soon be able to do mods again, and even if not, he has at least the parts to do a S3-triple. So, if anyone wants a wide-spectrum light in a small host…
Looking through his current stock, here’s what looks like the best option for emitters:
XP-G2 R5 1A, ~6700K, 518+ lm at 1.5A
XP-G2 R4 5A1, ~4100K, 485+ lm at 1.5A
XP-G2 Q2 7C4 90+CRI, ~2900K, 288+ lm at 1.5A
This should provide the widest and most evenly-spread tint selection from what is available right now, and should result in a blended overall tint of just under 4900K.
That tint estimate was calculated by averaging the three tints multiplied by their relative output values/bins. ((6700 * 100) + (4100 * 93) + (2900 * 55)) / 248 == 4882 Kelvin
Using the same type of calculation on the BST-wide, I get about 4843 K:
(6700 + (4900*0.93) + (4200*0.80) + (3100*0.80)) / 3.53 == 4843 K
I’m guessing 4.4A total power would be ideal, since that drives each emitter at nearly 1.5A, so it should make the tints as close as possible to the manufacturer’s specs. Also, it’s a nice balance between lumens and heat, and I think it would do about 1100lm OTF on turbo if the optics lose 12% of the output. (518lm + 485lm + 288lm) * 4.4A/(3*1.5A) * 0.88 == 1110 lm
I have an unbranded J-18 type host that came so scratched up, I don’t want to invest a lot of time and money on it. Like RaceR86’s garage sale give-away, I have a lot of old XM-Ls hanging around that I’ll never use. There’s a pretty good range from cold to very warm, so I might just do a mix and match. Maybe even a de dome. I’ve also got a number of KD 9*XML beast drivers to blow up. I didn’t know they had a twenty minute lifespan when I got them.
I can’t think of any better thing to do with this light. Might be fun.
I finished my second wide-spectrum / tint-mixing mod. This time it’s a Skyray King with a BLF driver.
I think the math I used to estimate the result (based on specs) must have been pretty close to correct, since the result ended up almost exactly how I expected. The tint and total lumen output were both pretty much spot-on.
Edit: After using it a while, I can see the beam turned out with just a hint of yellow. It might have been better for me to make the middle emitter slightly cooler, or perhaps use more tint bins a bit below the black body line. It still looks great though.
Ouchyfoot, when I did my 9 XM-L tint mixed monster light last year I used everything from WW to CW. Just used emitters I had. It tuned out great, but it lacked some red due to the mix and several de-domed emitters.
When Im doing my 12 XM-L light Ill be doing a more proper mix. Im going to beat the 9 XM-L light in every way.. Packages from IOS are usually fast for me, but currently I don't have enough Noctigons and been waiting a long time for more Noctigons... Still not sure what type of UI ill use though.. Now that Ill done with my contest build that mod will eventually start moving higher on my to mod list.
Toykeeper. I like your focus on tint mixing. Seems like more and more people are getting their eyes up for it now. Ive lost track on how many lights ive done with different mixes. If you have not seen the flashgrenade you should check it out. It can do beam mixing as well. No need for diffuser film.
I don't think Ill be doing more dual beam lights this year. But Ill certainly get back to it. In some ways its a step deeper into the world of tint mixing. Adds even more ways to mix things. Which is both good and interesting depending on the use. :)
