Why I still use Anduril 1 for EDC: Anduril 2 lacking an Anduril 1 feature, suggestion, and request for programmer.

Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts
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Ok, so here’s how I set up my Anduril 1 lights for EDC, which Anduril 2 can’t do:

1: Set the bottom of either stepped or smooth ramp, to ~120-130/150 (yes, you basically sacrifice a ramp to do this)

2: Set the bottom of the other ramp to ~10-15/150 (Yes, I sacrifice moonlight for a ~15-30 lumen low)

I then 4C to enter lockout mode, and I EDC the light like this.

Now here’s where Anduril 1 comes in: On Anduril 1’s lockout mode, 1H is bottom of whatever ramp I was in before entering lockout, and 2H is bottom of the other ramp.

In this way, my Anduril 1 lights in lockout mode function like low-high OR high-low, momentary-only lights. This is great for my needs and works really well. I usually carry in high-low. If I’m using the light for extended periods, I can just unlock and switch ramps to get normal operation.

Anduril 2 can’t do this. While in lockout on Anduril 2, 1H will always be the lowest of the two ramps, and 2H will be the highest, or manual mode memory if that is set and higher. It doesn’t matter which ramp you entered lockout from - it’ll always be low-high. There’s no way to make it high-low. So I am currently unable to EDC lights with Anduril 2.

Hope I explained all that well enough.

So, suggestion/request to Toykeeper: I would love if this Anduril 1 functionality could be added back to Anduril 2 somehow.

Honestly it would be awesome to see some kind of dedicated “tactical/defensive lockout” mode with 3 programmable levels for 1H, 2H, and 3H. You could enter/exit with 6C, and configure it with 12H from on while in normal advanced mode.

In the meantime, I’d like to ask any programmers out there what it would cost to make a custom Anduril 2 version with the Anduril 1 lockout behavior, that I could then flash to my lights. Namely Noctigon KR1’s with the boost driver, which according to Hank are only able to use Anduril 2.

FURTHER DISCUSSION/EXPLANATION:

The lockout mode behavior change from A1 to A2 does make sense, I get why it was done - for a lockout mode, you don’t want 1H going to high/manual mode memory because it could be unsafe. The way I am using lockout in A1 likely wasn’t intended to be a feature.

Regardless, it’s one of the reasons I originally fell in love with Anduril 1 - it allowed me to have a great, super simple, high-low, momentary-only defensive EDC light, then quickly unlock and switch ramps to get all the Anduril goodies when I needed to use the light for more than a few minutes.

I recognize that Anduril 2 is better than Anduril 1 in every other way. I’d prefer to use it if I could, and I do use it on lights that I don’t EDC.

I can only EDC lights with a momentary high/turbo function, so I mostly EDC lights with mechanical forward-clicky switches and two-stage e-switches like the Fenix PD32 V2 (or Olight warrior series, but I don’t use Olights). Anduril 1 was the ONLY e-switch UI that could actually function just as well as a dedicated tactical/defensive light - better even, since there’s no risk of accidentally full-pressing and getting constant-on when you mean to half-press for momentary.

“Why not just use 2H for momentary turbo?”
First, because when you use 2H, there’s a significant delay before the light actually goes to turbo (close to 1 second), whereas in lockout mode the button response is instantaneous. Second, because turbo gets too hot too fast in some lights, so I like having a more sustainable high mode. Third and most importantly, any button combo besides 1H in a dangerous/stressful/defensive scenario is not reliable. 2H (and 3H) is still a great, useful feature for stuff like checking in the distance, it’s just not great for every emergency situation.

“Why not just use 5C for momentary-only mode?”
Because that’s super annoying for EDC, having to unscrew and screw back in the head every time I need a lower mode. It basically makes the light useless for anything BUT self-defense. Having high-low is nice for EDC - I can 2H my FW4A to get low while it’s still in my pocket, then pull it out to use it. Unlocking then switching ramps is way easier to get back to normal operation if needed, and can still be done if the light is wet.

“Anduril isn’t meant for defensive lights.”
Possibly a bit of a straw man but I wanted to address this because like, why not? As I mentioned, a likely-unintended Anduril 1 feature made it the ONLY e-switch UI that can function as a defensive light just as well as many dedicated tactical lights, AND be great for general use. People who carry a light for defensive use have lots of different preferences, and a configurable “tactical” e-switch UI is something Anduril could absolutely include. Not everyone would use it all the time, but I think it might come in handy for a lot of people if it was available, and it’s no more niche than many other Anduril features.

And mainly, I think many would use and appreciate the “tactical/defensive lockout” I described above even if they don’t carry their light for defensive purposes. It also might help get Anduril into more different kinds of lights, and maybe we could see more tail switch Anduril lights. Ergonomically and performance-wise, the Lumintop FW series, Noctigon KR1, and KR4 are great for defensive EDC use with Anduril 1.

Anyway, I’d love to hear peoples thoughts on this! What do you think? Would a lockout mode with 3 programmable levels for 1H, 2H, and 3H be useful to you? Maybe you could have 3H be constant-on if held for more than ~3 seconds or something.

Thanks for reading, and any programmers who’d be willing to do a custom A2 version, message me!

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Nice, but i have a different option about of these types of UI !

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What do you mean "I can only EDC lights with a momentary high/turbo function,… " ? Also, what do you say to those people that think that they need instant access to strobe for defensive, tactical, dangerous situations? What are you doing with your other hand when you’ve got one hand on your flashlight in these defensive situations? You mentioned carrying the light in your pocket. What pocket? The one second delay for two clicks to go to turbo is not really going to be a 1 second delay for light down range because by the time you get that flashlight up on the side of your head it’s on turbo if you’re clicking once you have the flashlight in your hand. You also say that turbo gets too hot too fast but you can instantly start ramping down by pressing and holding from turbo. So that’s not a problem. Having to press/ hold continuously in stressful situations is not going to be the best solution. Having the light come on and being able to regrip the flashlight in your hand and do other things while the light stays on is a better situation. If your concern is inadvertent activation in a pocket or other carry position, there are ways to avoid burning things without locking it out. I always shut my edc lights off at the lowest end of the ramp or lowest mode. By “always” I mean I’ve been trying to train myself to do it that way for 2 years. I have probably a 95% success rate. Nothing has burned in 2 years.

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In anduril2, if you use “last brightness” memory (and do not use hybrid memory), then 1H and 2H from lockout works just as in anduril1.

Just clear the memorized level by doing 10H from on, release at the first blink (1st menu) and don’t input anything (let it blink out). That clears the memorized level. Now 1h and 2h from lockout will use the two floor values.

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I also what to add that using hybrid memory with a very bright memorized level would also work just as you like it when locked, with 1H at floor value, and 2H at the memorized level.

You can use a long timer of you wish, your flashlight will have last mode memory most of the time. Or like mez use a reasonable 7-8 min timer and get used to opening the flashlight with 1H when it’s unlocked if you don’t want to turn it on bright.

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I have a fork where I added 3H when locked for momentary turbo (so I get 1H moon/2H memory/3H turbo - although it doesn’t have to be in that order and making 1H be the brightest or adding additional steps of brightness wouldn’t be hard). At the moment the codebase is a bit of a mess as I’m doing some refactoring of my changes, but I do have a branch with just that functionality. At the moment 3H hardcoded to level 150 but it would be trivial to override that to another level if you’d prefer.

Making it switchable between high/low and low/high might be a little more work, but still reasonably doable, and it’d be a nice feature to have available as a patch even if it’s not in the main codebase. One thing to keep in mind though is that this currently only works on single channel lights (because 3H for switching channels gets in the way) with the momentary turbo as it currently is, but overriding the default moon/memory logic with a high/low wouldn’t be any different for dual channel, I just haven’t implemented it yet.

What lights do you want it for (with the model code)? I can make a build, I already have one I made for the KR1 for someone on Discord. I need the model code(s), and what level out of 150 you want for 1H/2H/3H. If there are any other preferences you want (e.g. ramp config settings, aux mode, starting with simple UI disabled, etc.) I can also configure those so they are the default after a factory reset without needing to reconfigure each time.

Completely agreed. I EDC an Anduril light, and for me, while self-defence isn’t the primary reason, it’s still a consideration, and the hackable nature of it is why I like it so much for that, because I can customise the functionality to my needs, and I know exactly what it will do with a given input.

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Not really a straw man. If you want a tactical light, Anduril is probably the wrong UI. It’s not designed for that. It’s way too complex for tactical purposes.

However, attiny1616 and attiny1634 have enough ROM for more stuff, so perhaps some models could have a tactical-ish mode on 6C. Momentary 1H, 2H, and 3H only, with 3 configurable levels and/or strobe. No mucking about with floor levels. Also no “stay on without holding the button” because then it would need thermal regulation and that’s a huge pain. Also no control over tint or channel, because that stuff is on 3C/3H, which are used by the 3rd tactical mode.

Off → 6C: Tactical Mode (only available in Advanced UI)

  • 1H: momentary level T1
  • 2H: momentary level T2
  • 3H: momentary level T3
  • 6C: exit (go to Off Mode)
  • 7H: tactical config menu
    • 3 level slots, each value can be 0 to 255
    • 1 … 150: regular ramp level
    • other (0 or 151+): strobe (uses current strobe-group mode)
    • defaults: 120, 20, 0 (high, low, strobe)

Aux LEDs use the same pattern as Lockout Mode.

Pro: This would add a fairly minimal tactical style mode, in a way which is cleaner and more flexible than current Lockout or Momentary modes.

Con: This would add about 300 bytes to the ROM, and fill in the intentional gap between 5C (momentary mode) and 7C (next aux LED pattern), making it even easier to accidentally get stuck in an unintended mode. Overlaps with existing functionality. May only be used by a tiny subset of users.

Thoughts?

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Sounds nice!

I’d also like a configurable 1C level:

  • one should be able to set this to any brightness via 7H menu (or just 1C = Turbo might be enough really)
  • since this might not be desirable function for everyone you should also be able to disable 1C completely
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There’s no such thing as a defensive flashlight. So get that thought out of your head. Any time you spent fumbling for a flashlight is the 1/2 second you mightve had to run away now gone. You’re better off with nothing than with a flashlight.

There are blunt force weapons with light bulbs on the end, 7D maglites and the like. These don’t need anduril. And aren’t very effective weapons anyways against anything other than a guy already handcuffed

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Not really true. A light is not a good weapon but it’s an amazing defensive tool, and it’s the thing I always, ALWAYS make sure I’m carrying if I’m in a sketchy area, that if you need to even consider using as a weapon, you failed to appropriately use defensively.

  • Misdirection - people assume you are looking where you are pointing a light - they don’t think you might be looking back from a distance to see if someone is following you if you are lighting up pavement/buildings ahead of you
  • Observation - shine a pocket thrower down a dark street or alleyway before you walk down and see if it seems safe, or quickly scan a horizon or treeline in a more open area. Even a decently bright floody beam on a quick blast gives you useful information. Even just occasionally on low, you’ll see that hole in the ground before you step into it and twist your ankle.
  • Disguise - people are more likely to assume you’re some kind of official person, and so avoid you (or attempt to seek help from you, but if they approach you in that case, they’re likely to do it nonthreateningly for obvious reasons)
  • Aposematism - someone who has a light is more likely to have something else more dangerous - whether that’s unarmed combat skills, a knife, or a gun. Even if you don’t, it tilts the odds someone harasses someone else if they aren’t specifically targeting you. Obviously, this depends on other factors such as where you are and how you look - it’s probably less effective for a colourful haired femme than a well-built man (which is ironic as I know multiple femmes who are as much or more into guns than the average tacticool guy…). As it is, you’ll definitely look like less of an easy target and way more of someone who’s prepared for a situation even if a light is the only thing you have on you. Also another point against “my phone has a light” people - great idea, walking around with your phone out in a potentially risky situation, said nobody ever…
  • Observability - a light is a signalling tool. Not because it has some SOS mode you’ll never use, but because you can shine it into windows of buildings, or into traffic. Guaranteed to attract attention. If there’s one thing that will deter an attacker, it’s the possibility someone else sees them.

Overall, go by “You don’t need perfect security, just enough to make someone else an easier target”.

Ultimately, I think even if the above fails, it can be a useful thing that I’d rather have in my hand than nothing. A W2 DT8K on turbo into someone’s face is going to leave them off balance and mentally regrouping for a short time, but it’s only a short time. I wouldn’t want to try and fight someone with one, in hand or something stupid like that, but if someone does seem threatening, I’m definitely going to turbo them in the face and run because it buys you that extra time, but I would also never wait around for the moment to - if I can run before they get close enough for it to be an option, that’s the one I’m taking.

Sounds good, I think 300 bytes is worth it for that, that’s a lot of functionality in one place, especially when you can just put the whole feature behind a build-time option so it’s only for lights with enough EEPROM space (which should be all recent ones). In terms of fitting into 6H, since it might be a rarely used feature by a lot of people, moving it to 8 does break the split between operation and configuration a bit, but might be a reasonable compromise as most people who are going to use that mode will probably just be replacing the standard lockout mode with it in their usage patterns.

From a purely development perspective, how would setting the brightness above 150 up to 255 make it a strobe mode - would this be new code to implement that or is that something that’s already possible?

That said, I think it should always be tactical strobe rather than the current strobemode - I don’t think anyone who uses this mode would have a need for any other strobes?

Definitely interested in input from people here who use lights in a tactical way more regularly than me - what would your ideal tactical mode be? How about a lower mode on a higher number of clicks as well? And to exit it, a high numbered hold so it can’t be easily accidentally exited even in a physical situation?

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Never said flashlights were weapons. Said you can take a blunt force weapon, put a bulb at one end, call it a flashlight and use it to beat handcuffed people. The light isn’t the weapon, the steel bar its attached to is.

To all your other points,

-Misdirection

What are you a magician? Why not carrying rabbit in a hat. Makes no sense. Not self defense.

Observation

That’s just using a flashlight. Not self defense. Does draw attention to you.

Disguise

Again with the magician stuff. Only people you’re scaring off like that is paranoid high school kids smoking weed behind the playground. Not self defense.

Aposematism - someone who has a light is more likely to have something else more dangerous - whether that’s unarmed combat skills, a knife, or a gun.

Does anybody see a person with a flashlight and think, oh ya, that guy has unarmed combat skills? Really? Lot of assumptions here. My assumption is more, hey look, somebody scared of the dark, probably unfamiliar with the area, probably nervous walking at night, definitely doesn’t have a gun.
But even if I didn’t think that, if you don’t have a gun you don’t want ppl to think you have one. That’s a horrible idea. Fact: in 100% of fake gun related shootings, the victim is always the one with the fake gun

Observability-

a whistle would be better.

None of these are self defense uses. This is just shining a light around and annoying people.

More likely it wasted any extra time you mightve had.

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Not implying that I’m always going to use it in every situation all the time, just that I’d rather have one than not. I live in a fairly bad area and I do feel like I have options with one that I wouldn’t without, and ultimately, I feel more confident with a light than I would with something more dangerous that I’m not skilled and confident in using like a knife or gun. Also, people using lights here is maybe not as rare as some places due to poorly maintained infrastructure and a lack of street lighting in some areas, I have seen people navigating using their phone’s light before…

While I agree that it shouldn’t be the primary reason for carrying one, the main reason I think someone could really justifiably say “you shouldn’t carry a light for self-defense at all” is if it’s a light that would be big and heavy enough to slow someone down when carried, in which case it’s actually better for defensive purposes as it works as a club.

Fair point here, I guess.

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Pre-emptive nope on that one. Especially the part about turbo. Anduril very explicitly doesn’t allow any unregulated turbo without physically holding the button the entire time, so people won’t leave it on past the point where it’s too hot to hold.

flashlight as a defensive tool

There is debate on the value (or lack of value) of a flashlight during night-time confrontations, but flashlights are unarguably very effective tools for doing 2 things:

  • Making its user more visible.
  • Pissing off anyone the light is aimed at.

If you want people to see you, or want them to be angry, it’s a great tool. But if you have other goals, a light’s inter-personal value isn’t so straightforward.

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Guess I should have read your whole post, mea culpa. :-/
Still sad, a toggle to get permanent light without holding a button would kind of be necessary for my definition of “tactical” but probably not for the police/military definition.

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I was thinking something like…

if (1 <= value <= 150) { set_level(value); }
else { strobe_mode(); }

But I’ve also been thinking maybe anything over 150 could refer to specific strobe types. That way, it could be explicitly chosen independent of the current strobe mode group setting. It would also be possible to have more than one strobe on speed dial. Not a big deal on most lights, but if you had something with, perhaps, a white primary LED plus red and blue on channels 2 and 3, you could have it do “high, tactical strobe, police strobe”.

Configuring it would be a pain, but it would only need to be done once. Hold 15 times in the number entry mode to get to 150 (adds 10 per hold), then click a few times to select a specific strobe by number. Or just leave it at 0 for the default strobe.

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Seems to have been defensive and valuable in this case:

Man suffers minor injuries in mountain lion attack:

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Pardon me if I have misunderstood this discussion, but I thought 1C to Turbo IS possible with Anduril 2? I set my lights that way. 7H from on to set ceiling, then after second flash, 1 click to set ceiling at 150. Now 1C gives you ceiling, which is 150 (turbo).

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Yes, you can set the ceiling to full power, and set memory to the ceiling, and then 1C from off gives full power. This requires going into advanced mode and configuring some things (except on a couple lights which have a low maximum and thus enable full power in simple mode, like the SP10 Pro).

However, that “1C turbo from Off” is throttled by thermal regulation. It runs in ramp mode, which reduces brightness when it’s too hot.

The normal ramp mode is the only mode which has thermal regulation, so it’s the only mode which allows running at full power without the button held.

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Thank you. Did I understand correctly that for example in my light that’s set up to 1C to Turbo:
1 click = Turbo thermal regulated
2 clicks and hold = Turbo unregulated?

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Yes. The “2H from Off → Turbo” function is not thermally regulated. It never enters Ramp Mode, so thermal regulation is never activated. Because it’s technically in “Off” mode the whole time, which doesn’t handle thermal events. FSM still sends over-temp warnings in “Off” mode, but the UI code ignores it.

It stays at full power (or the ceiling, depending on config options) until you release the button. The idea is that the user would let go when it gets too hot to hold. Or more often, the user simply won’t hold it very long to begin with, because holding the button a long time is uncomfortable.

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