FWIW, I added a “tactical mode” on 6C. It’s only on models which had extra space, and I haven’t uploaded any .hex files yet, so it requires building from source.
Can’t promise it’ll stay there though. Depends on what people think. I also haven’t added it to the documentation yet.
Its use is as described in the earlier post, which I’ll copy here and update…
Off → 6C: Tactical Mode (only available in Advanced UI)
Output is momentary only. It activates as soon as the button is pressed, and stops when the button is released.
Aux LEDs use the same pattern as Lockout Mode.
On multi-channel lights, there may be additional strobes in the future. Like, if you have a white LED plus red and blue, it would have a red/blue police strobe available in addition to the usual modes. This is probably coming pretty soon, too, because I know of at least one upcoming light with suitable hardware.
While configuring it, to enter large values, it’s recommended to use 1H actions in the number entry menu, to add +10. That way, entering “152” would be 15 holds followed by 2 clicks. Still not quick, but a lot easier than clicking exactly 152 times.
Or you can just set it to 0, to use whatever the current strobe is. But that would change each time you change the strobe group’s current mode, so you could end up with a surprise some day when you try to activate tactical strobe, and end up with candle mode instead.
For sure, but I think you know most people aren’t thinking of mountain lions when they say a defensive flashlight. Animals are a different thing. I mean, my grandma puts little jingle bells on her shoes when she’s hiking to deter black bears. You wouldn’t call them defensive jingle bells. They probably wouldn’t be very useful if a car pulls up in front of your house and 6 guys jump out lol
My rationale here is that the time you spend getting your flashlight out is time you could’ve used to get away, and now no longer have. There’s also the idea, backed by a good amount of evidence, that people who believe they have an effective tool for self defense may take greater risks in certain situations, go to areas they wouldn’t normally go to, be emboldened to act a way they wouldn’t otherwise act, a way that may put them more in harm’s way, because they think they have an effective self defense tool.
We see this with people who carry guns for the express purpose of self defense being much more likely to be killed in a road rage altercation, and those that have guns in the house for the express purpose of self defense are more likely to be murdered in their homes. The theory that they are emboldened to take greater risks because of it, or get into situations they wouldn’t have otherwise gotten into.
Obviously this definitely doesn’t translate perfectly to flashlights of course, but I can see how the thought process may be similar.
I just have to challenge this. Do you actually have access to any published, reliable, statistics that support this statement. I tend to keep up with such things and have not seen anything that supports this. So often in the this era of the internet people make flat misleading statements that have no basis in fact. So I just had to ask.
In any case, this is a bad analogy. It is hard to imagine anyone equating the defensive capabilities of a flashlight with those of a firearm in trained hands.
Regardless, I don’t think any of what may be said along these lines is going to dissuade the OP from carrying his flashlight in the state that he wants it. Regardless of whether that takes Andruil 1 or using some of the suggestions on getting to a similar place with Andruil 2. So what is the point?
For real though, it’s a very effective defense. I, for one, won’t go within earshot of Jingle Bells! It’s like a wide-area psionic attack used as a tower defense mechanism for retail spaces, to ward off shoppers during the last month of the year.
As for the firearm statistics though, it’s true… and there are a ton of studies. I’ve even downloaded the raw mortality data myself and run my own number-crunching on it to verify. Lots of trend analyses, scatter plots, etc. People who own firearms have much higher rates of violent deaths, and those who carry one have even higher rates.
The trend extends beyond just a personal level though. Places with weaker weapon regulations also have significantly lower life expectancy and higher per-capita premature death rates… especially of the violent sort and the self-inflicted sort.
As for flashlight use in dangerous confrontations, I’ve read a few studies… but the results didn’t really show a significant measurable effect. Even tactical strobes didn’t seem to have much effect, except on a small portion of the population who have an epilepsy-like sensitivity to it. Try to stun someone that way, and it might work… but there’s just as much chance that it’ll make the situation worse instead. Shining a bright light at someone escalates the conflict, which is usually not a good idea. It’s like throwing the first punch… and hitting so lightly that it tickles.
Yeah, I’d always be careful actually directly shining a light on someone, but that’s really the least likely of any defensive/generally awareness-improving action with one.
In terms of taking time to get it out, I always keep it somewhere where I can get to it quickly, which is also why I have a KR1 over a D1 for the tailswitch which makes more sense for a light that’s likely to be used in a shorter burst right after being picked up, but ultimately, I’d either already have my light in hand in a pocket or similar before there was a moment where it would be useful defensively, or I’d just run and not bother to try to get it out if it wasn’t already out. I just consider what I would do in a situation before I encounter it as much as possible, I guess.
Holy crap! I was just getting around to try and respond to your first post describing the mode, and you already made it! It’s PERFECT! Thank you thank you thank you! Now I need to buy a flashing cable haha. I did not expect for it to exist so soon lol.
Honestly, I think maybe I framed this topic/discussion wrong. Instead of framing it as a “tactical lockout” maybe its better to be considered as an “extended lockout”, “configurable lockout”, or maybe, since it’s only available from advanced mode, an “advanced lockout”.
Because I really think this is something that many people could make use of even if it’s not for “tactical” purposes, right? Like you could just set the 3 levels to moonlight, low, and medium, and just get a bit more functional lockout mode that you might not have to exit out of as often for daily tasks.
I think everyone has those times where you need a bit more brightness than is typically available in lockout, and being able to have a higher mode set on 3H would be faster and easier than unlocking and ramping up to where you want.
Or, with the way you’ve implemented strobes, I dunno, maybe this would be useful for light painting to have 3 strobes available quickly, but I’m not a light painter so I don’t know. Or video effects? But it will be fun to play with anyway with lightning mode in there.
I dunno, just for general EDC functionality I can see a lot of people getting use out of this, and now I kinda worry that calling it “tactical” might turn people off or give the impression that it’s not meant for other stuff - but it certainly could be. I suppose we’ll see.
Ok, I’m going to address the conversation around flashlights and self-defense.
First, reflecting on my original post, I realize I should have tried to keep it more focused on the anduril functionality I was suggesting, rather than the purpose I personally intend to use it for. I think I may have overcomplicated things by bringing in the self-defense topic. I should have perhaps qualified more/most of my statements regarding “self-defense” to repeatedly include the phrase “in my personal opinion and experience”.
I was also perhaps a little dramatic (“I can only EDC lights with”), and I used a somewhat definitive tone while making statements that are actually a matter of debate and opinion, which this thread has clearly illustrated.
I want to make two main points.
First, a major issue that makes this discussion so difficult: The definition of “self defense” varies. Same goes for “tactical” “defensive” “emergency/stressful scenario” and other terms revolving around this topic.
To one person, “self defense” is a direct physical attack/threat by another human. Another person may think it’s much more broad and includes other factors in addition to physical altercations. And so on. It also varies depending on your location and personal situation.
So it is difficult to determine if a flashlight is good or terrible for self-defense when people generally have different ideas about what self-defense means.
Because of this, discussion often quickly leads to people having to game out various scenarios in order to make or defend their points. The definition isn’t clear, so we have to use examples and hypotheticals to talk about it - but there is an endless number of potential scenarios, so the discussion can never be really resolved.
Everyone has different personal experiences. This is not a topic for which a large swath of objective data exists. There may be some, but we are mostly working with our own experience and anecdotal evidence.
I personally believe a flashlight is a valuable tool for self defense, among other tools and tactics (and according to my own definition of self-defense). That’s my opinion based on my own experience, education, research, and training. The entire market sector of tactical/defensive/duty flashlights and UIs does prove that I’m at least not the only one who thinks so.
The second, possibly related issue, is that whenever “tactical” or “self-defense” features are discussed, they receive a level of scrutiny that other features never have to contend with when they are discussed. Suddenly there’s a lot about being right or wrong about self-defense.
In merely suggesting a “tactical/self-defense” feature for a flashlight, the discussion becomes, in part, a debate about very concept of a flashlight for self defense and whether it has merit, not the feature itself.
When people have discussions of other potential features, like auto-lockout or tint ramping or party strobes and other modes, and their potential usefulness for, say, light painting, or mechanical work, people generally don’t criticize each others light painting or car-fixing methods and skills, or dismiss the concept of light painting entirely - the focus is on making a UI with options that work for everyone’s preferences.
I understand the comparison isn’t 1 to 1, because the topic of “self-defense” or “tactical scenarios” is much higher stakes than something like light painting, so people are more passionate about the “right” and “wrong” way to do things.
But still I think the point stands, people have different preferences and experiences, and some people have a preference for “tactical” or “self-defense” use.
You don’t have to determine the best way to hold a flashlight while fixing a car to make a good flashlight UI for a mechanic, you just have to ask people about their preferences, get a wide range of opinions, and make a UI that’s configurable for them all.
Last, I just want to say none of this is intended to chill debate on this topic or to say I haven’t engaged in it. Like, I think strobe is not useful for self-defense, or really for much of anything. I might make an argument about how it doesn’t actually really disorient anyone any more than turbo, how you’re just going to give yourself less information, and you’re just better off using turbo.
But really what’s important is that there are good lights that can cater to my preference for turbo, and others preference for strobe. Because realistically I can’t reliably convince people who like strobe that strobe is dumb, but at least the option for both our preferences should exist.
Well, after the slow boat brings it and you figure out how to flash firmware, hopefully it’ll do what you need. Modifying it is fun too; no stock solution will ever be as good as something you customized for your own personal style.
As for why this mode was written now… You’re not the first to ask for something like this. Over the years there have been several people who wanted something like a tactical light’s instant “high, low, strobe” interface. The difference this time is, basically, that the planets happened to align… so to speak. Like, I was already trying to think of ways to make multi-channel features easier to access, and I just got a tracking number this morning for a new light where this feature will probably be pretty relevant.
There are reasons for that. Lots of history, lots of old arguments, lots of spam. Sooo much spam. In some places, posting about certain “tactical” or “military” things is grounds for immediate deletion. For example, the subreddit’s rule banning ShadowHawk and anything remotely similar to it. That sort of thing happened so much that it’s currently rule #2. It doesn’t seem to happen as much now, but for a while, pretty much any time someone mentioned “tactical”, they turned out to be bots or advertisers for banned companies trying to bypass the ban. Klarus also had some particularly tasteless advertisements, like showing a picture copied from the news, showing a real-life family whose father was killed just hours earlier in a shooting, with some text about how he’d still be alive if he had the latest Klarus tactical light with instant strobe, click here for 15% off. They had to post an apology due to huge backlash, but they did other tasteless things later regardless. Anyway, just a small sample of one aspect of all this.
Another big part is that, when people bring up the topic, they tend to be “a little dramatic”, as you put it. But that’s an understatement. Many of the people asking for tactical features quickly got their accounts suspended due to their general behavior, and in some cases, they escalated far enough to do illegal things, and police reports had to be filed. So now when someone brings it up, especially if they’re a relatively new user, it’s kind of a big warning flag.
More broadly, tactical (or “tacticool”) stuff has a long history of association with the “mall ninja” phenomenon, so people tend to keep their distance, or be critical of anything which smells similar.
Because those features don’t have decades of problematic history. They’re just “hey, this might be neat” and that’s the entire extent of the topic. People only get prickly about tactical stuff because of its history.
I’m not very fond of tactical strobe (i.e. high duty cycle strobe), but people have found some pretty good uses for it. Like, I forget now who it was, but one of the members here is old enough that he’s not quick on his feet any more, and he lives in a place where drivers aren’t very careful. So he strobes the ground whenever he’s crossing the street, to make sure cars will see him and stop.
Light painters also seem pretty fond of tactical strobe, as long as it’s easy to activate immediately… which was the original reason for making strobes work in Momentary Mode. If it’s not instant, it’ll mess up the picture.
Personally, I stick with party strobe. I love freezing moving objects in place, and it’s also kind of fun to use for illumination, to make real life look like an old film.
Some lights have the button and front-facing aux LEDs physically wired together so they can’t be different. Some use 4 independent pins though, 3 for front aux and 1 for the button, so they could do different things. Or I think there may even be a model which swaps those, with 3 for the button and 1 for the front-facing aux… I forget.
Typically the front-facing aux LEDs turn off while the main LEDs are on, since there’s no point having them on at the same time. Meanwhile, the button mirrors the main LEDs, lighting up at the same time and also copying the brightness as well as possible within the limitations of the hardware.
Or in the uncommon case of a RGB button, the button color is updated continuously while the main LEDs are on, to show the battery status in real time.
When the light is off though, aux LEDs do whatever the user configured, and if there is a separate button LED, it mirrors the aux LEDs.
So, what would you change, and how would the user configure it?
I don’t want to speak for mcflies, but it would be nice to control the brightness and the aux mode independently for the button and front aux (if the light has independent pins). For me, I like to have the button on low and the front aux disabled. What I’ve done on my Emisar lights is desolder the ground wire of the front aux.
Well ideally they would be completely independent. So you could have one or both either on or off, or if you wanted the front aux on low and the switch on high that would be configurable. Or if you just wanted the switch aux on and not the front aux. Or the front aux and not the switch aux. This is all with the light off, of course, I’m not sure if that was obvious or not.
Whether the brightness level of the front aux and switch aux can be independent it sounds like is dependent on the hardware. But if the front aux is off while the light is on then that would mean at the very least it’s possible to control the on/off functions of the aux independently.
How I’d like to see it implemented? I’m not sure. Could be 8H and it has sub-menus: 1st blink is config → 1C: both on, 2C: front off/switch on, 3C: front on/switch off, 2nd blink is front aux brightness, 3rd blink is switch aux brightness each with 1C for low 2C for high.
Just to be clear, as toykeeper has implemented it, it doesn’t change the current lockout behavior at all. It just adds another configurable lockout, accessible with 6C, that has 3 programmable levels for 1H, 2H, and 3H. The existing 4C lockout hasn’t been changed.
And I definitely agree it shouldn’t. I wouldn’t want the existing default behavior to change for those who like it the way it is. I just would want extra configuration options available for those that would make use of it.
glad you got the momentary high output feature you seek
be careful if you set turbo or a burning high output, to 1H, on a light that could have accidental activation. Many anduril lights have sensitive switches that can be activated by accident, that is why people use normal Lockout. Inherently safe against burns caused by unintended activation.
with the standard lockout in anduril 2, accidental 1H only produces a non burning, very low output, for safety against burns.
the 6H feature creates the possibility of an unintended consequence, the light could be activated in a mode that is bright enough to cause burns… That could be bad, and imo does not qualify as a “safe lockout” mode…
Okay. If I understand correctly, the idea is to make the “off / low / high / blinking” control for the button independent of the same control for the RGB aux LEDs.
The current controls are:
7C: next brightness mode (off, low, high, blinking)
7H: next color (red, yellow, green, cyan, blue, purple, white, disco, rainbow, voltage)
I’d like to keep those controls intact, allowing them to work as they do now. But perhaps one additional optional control could be added, on lights which have the capability to do it:
8C: desync the second aux channel (+0, +1, +2, or +3)
The idea is, it would default to 0… meaning the button and the RGB LEDs would stay in sync. But you could increase it to 1, 2, or 3 in order to add that number to the other mode. So if it’s set to 1, the modes would be:
aux off, button low
aux low, button high
aux high, button blinking
aux blinking, button off
Plus similar rotations for an offset of 2 or 3.
This would retain the easy single-step config it has now, by default… but provide the option to desync the two sets of aux LEDs if desired.
Does that sound like it would work?
I’m reluctant to fill up 8C, but it’s the simplest and most obvious place to put this function. 8H would be more out-of-the-way, but also less intuitive. So, not sure what’s best.
Yes that’s would work! As long as there is an option to have one on and one off there’s more than a few combos when you throw blinking aux into the mix.
Others might feel different but then again only one other chimed in on this. To make it simple and maybe to start having the 8C just toggle both aux on, 1 on/1 off, 1 off/1 on would be great. Then the 7C still retains all it’s functionality and it’s still exclusive to 7C.
As much as I’d like to have differenr brightnesses it would be great to just have the ability to toggle on/off.
this so much. I can’t even