I can get around 9000 lx, but it is quickly dropping to 8400 lx after 5 seconds.
For frosted lens this is a quite decent brightness.
Did you do this on the entire front surface? It is hard to see in your pic.
Yes, on entire front surface.
I forgot to mention, the distance between the source and the metal roof is 50 meters. Obviously the 219C isn’t the ideal choice for this light, that’s why the improvement was so underwhelming, so i might replace it with the SFT25R to see how much it improves throw. The specimens i got from Simon are alright DUV wise, so i might keep it like this until i find a suitable smooth reflector for it, or maybe a Sofirn HS40 OP reflector, so i can use another 95 CRI Yinding 5050 6500K like in the TIR version.
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I look forward to your results with Turbo and 150 meter distances
Im testing at just 17 meters, and at much lower outputs, that dont overheat and are sustainable
the SFT25 definitely has more throw at less lumens than this TS10 triple XPP…:
but I still want to try an sw45k in place of the SFT25
The little TS10 is a fun platform to explore different LED mods
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I couldn’t sleep with this doubt in my mind, so I decided to swap the 219C for the SFT25R, and there are the results (measured with apple LM2):
Stock TS10, 90 CRI CSP2323x3 6000K: 3761 cd
Single TIR, 95 CRI Yinding 5050 6500K: 13471 cd
Single reflector, 70 CRI SFT25R 6500K: 18458 cd
Note: TIR optics from the SP40A, OP reflector from the SP40
Also worth noting that the SFT25R specimens I’ve got aren’t green like the ones currently used in the TS10SG samples (-0.0008 duv at maximum output, measured on the hotspot, even lower duv if measured on the spill).
Beam comparison: 50m target distance, ISO 50, 2,5s shutter speed. RAW edited on Lightroom, same parameters for all images (temp, hue, exposure, etc)
Reference
Stock TS10
Single TIR TS10
Single reflector TS10
Time to find a suitable smooth reflector to hopefully round up to 20kcd.
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Very impressed to see that the 95CRI Yinding is stacking up very well against the SFT25R!
I really wish you had a copy of the SG to measure/compare intensity with, the numbers I’ve seen in this thread are all over the place–reasonable as different users have different calibrations.
For small lights I tend to find that a TIR throws much better than a reflector of the same size–it would be nice to test the SFT25R again with a smooth TIR. I’m not quite sure why as this trend seems to reverse for larger lights. My guess is that a reflector loses the area below the latus rectum of the parabola while a TIR doesn’t, and for small lights this bit of contribution is significant compared to the rest of the optic. Also many reflectors have subtle deformations (deviation from a perfect parabola) that is enough to mess up the beam of small LEDs–I just received some SFT25Rs today, and a S2+ reflector makes an awful, asymmetric, deformed beam. Quite perfect in a C8 though, with a custom, fine-tuned gasket.
What bezel are you using?
My W2 TS10 single is nearly 37kcd with a Convoy T2 smooth reflector and an SP10 bezel, though there’s a slight gap between the body and bezel that I filled with a 3d printed insert. It might presumably go down to 30kcd if the reflector was shortened to remove the gap.
Focusing the 5050 in the T2 reflector with a 5050 LED might be tricky, but it should be possible, maybe with a bit of sanding.
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Has anyone managed to open the head of the TS10SG yet? Tried unsuccessfully with strap wrenches yesterday but the light is slightly too small for my smallest strap wrench so I couldn’t crank on it.
It’s non-functional, because there’s no switch, but the head of the TS10SG just about threads on to the Sofirn SP10 Pro. This combo is about 74mm long, I have the magnetic tailcaps in the SP10 if that makes a difference.
TS10 SG also threads onto the body of the SP10 but isn’t waterproof due to the inner tube being longer.
Will update with some pics later.
Edit to add:
Size comparison, all 14500/AA with exception of the HS10.
L to R: Kronos BLF X5, Sofirn SP10 Pro, ZL H52, L10, TS10SG, Sofirn HS10
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IIRC @jon_slider was able to take his apart using leather strips and vise grips.
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Transmission losses due to absorption. A reflector doesn’t have any transmission losses because the inside volume of it is full of air (still makes for negligible losses, which doesn’t count as the air isn’t an integral part of the reflector), while the TIR is a solid chunk of plastic, which in comparison with the air, absorbs a much larger quantity of light, and as the size goes up so does the volume, which makes for even more losses.
I have two copper S2+, brought in different moments, one has a perfect reflector, perfect projection, and the other has some invisible to the naked eye imperfections that makes for a lopsided beam, just like you are describing, even when used with a round die LED, which is the closest we can get from a perfect source. Might be a production issue related to this specific reflector model.
Convoy T3 titanium bezel. It is shorter than the SP10 bezel, and i wanted it to fully close the gap, so I’m quite limited on the reflector choices. The T3 bezel has the exact thickness of the TS10 body though.
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Most important for @Wurkkos / @Wurkkos_Terry !!!
It is complicated to buy a 20€ Pokelite for every TS10 and not possible to give the TS10 as a present to a non-flashy because the missing USB-C charging possibility!
You have to sell common models with a USB-C recharge possibility!
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For me the TS10 is a little bit too short and I don’t like the throwy beam - so the best for me would be a little big longer TS10 with really good throw (because of deeper reflector, just one LED and a small LED).
For the TS10SG a high CRI LED would be a unique selling point for this kind of Kult flashlight!
And please add a gold looking clip to every brass flashlight model you’re selling, @Wurkkos !
Please!
@Wurkkos ( @Wurkkos_Terry ) Did i read that correctly, you’re planning to release a dual fuel TS10?
yes, pic here
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no offense but, Opple 2 data is not reliable, neither is my Opple 3… Especially not with cool white low cri LEDs:
The ONLY credible duv data I have seen for TS10SG is from koef3, DUV 0.0066:
and bear in mind that results will vary at different outputs, and from different individual LED samples…
an earlier test by koef3 of an SFT25 not in a TS10SG was DUV 0.0010
so as far as Im concerned… reporting Opple data for Low CRI Cool white is a total waste of time
and even data from koef3, with a calibrated instrument, there is a Very large variation in DUV between different LED samples.
imo, it is a mistake to focus on DUV data, regardless what equipment is used because individual LEDs are NOT identical at all… It does not matter where they are purchased, nor what supposed Bin they are from.
Even two LEDs from the same reel can have Large variations in DUV.
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Excuse my ignorance, but is that a viable option for flashlights? I ask because I know catadioptrics for telescope applications, and they incur in a serious price increase when compared with simpler refractor/reflector optics.
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My $0.02 after a cursory read of this thread so far: I think Wurkkos did a nice job of fitting a thrower in the same minuscule form factor as our beloved TS10. There are issues with tint and artifacts, but as @Mandrake50 said, all designs imply compromises.
I already EDC a thrower, the wondrous Wurkkos FC13 – and I need the USB powerbank functionality it provides, otherwise I would be very tempted to add the TS10SG to my kit.
Plus they take constant tweaking to keep the optical path aligned properly… Plus the figure of the secondary mirror is super critical, hence expensive to make. Take it from an owner of a telescope using this optical system… It would never work in a flashlight. Both from the cost and reliability point of view.
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Keep in mind that LEDs inside and outside of lights (especially those with TIR) are not necessarily comparable. In a lamp, not all of the light reaches the outside (is either blocked by the optics or other things), whereas an LED in my test always sits on a heat sink without optics and therefore all of the light is homogeneously mixed in the integrating sphere.
But in any case, the variation in duv is significant, especially for Luminus emitters, which is a huge disadvantage against other manufacturers.
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