Yep, that’s true. Wurkkos engineers have tried many optics. But there is no better to achieve a more concentrat throw in current size. That is a shortcoming 
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I agree it 100% my man. And hope make it happen in the future. But since WK04, WK15, WK40, TS21, TS25, FC13 continuously discontinued. Wurkkos factory is coming more and more restrictive about my new products plan. I have to choose the most budget option to fulfill my promise.
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That is a very serious issue. Let me feedback it to Wurkkos factory just right now.
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Keep sweet my man. The TS10 SG new batch would be available next month 
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I have tested the Wurkkos TS10 SG. Thanks for the giveaway at this point. 
In general, I would add a USB-C rechargeable battery to the lamp for easy use by non-flashlight enthusiasts. This also applies to the normal TS10 (v2) and would significantly upgrade it, as no additional equipment such as a charger would then be needed.
In terms of design, it corresponds 1:1 to the TS10. The black anodization has a high-quality velvety feel and is not as greasy as glossy coatings. Something I noticed during use: it is surprisingly difficult to find the button blindly. I often mistook the textured lens (there is no protective glass, which I find quite critical) for the button, but logically nothing happened when I pressed it…
Apart from this, the e-switch is feeling great. Just how a e-switch should be.
The light flux performance is very impressive for such a small light (measured with max. ceiling and Wurkkos 900 14500 @ 4.18 V)
Turbo @ 0sec 1632 lm
Turbo (150/150) @ 5sec 1444 lm and 16100 lx
Firefly (1/150): less than 0.1 lm
The light flux is dropping insanely quick, and thus the brightness (and range). I never reached the claimed 21600 lx in highest mode.
However, it also gets warm very quickly, which is due to the very small heat dissipation surface. If necessary, the performance can be adjusted in the Anduril 2 UI (floor/ceiling level). There is a very low moonlight, which I like, but with PWM though, I estimate it with 300-500 Hz.
Two things are primarily problematic for me: beam and tint.
The lens used causes annoying artifacts around a diffuse spot. This diffuse spot will reduce the intensity needed for maximum throw and range. As soon as you see this, you can always see it, at least that’s the case for me 
It’s not really noticeable in nature, but indoors (and on bright, smooth surfaces) it definitely is. There should be another lens used.
The SFT-25R in my sample is also green. It is not as extremely green as some other Luminus specimen (I have already measured SST-20 with duv greater than 0.02!), but this is typical for Luminus, especially in the low power range.
The problem here is the incomplete mixing of the light, which makes the spot appear greener than the spill. The maximum current is limited by the battery and driver, so the green cast never disappears completely. In my opinion, an Osram CSLNM1.TG or CULPM1 should be considered, which of course would require a re-designed MCPCB, as they generally provide usable tints and have a much lower tint shift.
There are no surprises in the spectrum of this SFT-25R. The duv is visibly higher in even lower modes:
From a purely personal point of view, I don’t really understand the point of such a light, especially with the problems in beam and performance. It simply doesn’t fit into my area of application and will therefore hardly ever be used. A light with a few hundred lumens (or just the normal TS10) is more than sufficient for looking for a keyhole, going to the car or searching in a dark cellar, and if I (deliberately) walk around in the dark forest, I have a light with more power and, above all, a larger battery with me anyway. Especially as the throw is not as impressive as I might have thought, despite the nominally high luminance of the LED, and the TS10SG has to be run on turbo for a reasonably good range anyway - which will quickly drain the small 14500 if the heat development doesn’t get in the way. As soon as the TS10SG is also throttled in the ceiling, it makes even more sense to use a dedicated thrower anyway.
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This is clear indication that the optic is too diffuse for such a small LED. Extending the head even slightly would allow the use of a smooth optic such as the Carclo 10193 (compatible with 7mm 3535 centering gaskets), which I estimate should double the intensity.
koef3 thank you for your DUV test of 0.0066.
I agree that Turbo is not sustainable and creates heat quickly. I disable Turbo and use a lower ceiling on all my TS10 models.
At the ceiling of 110 the TS10SG gives me 350 lumens. I actually use less output than that.
here are a couple of photos to show the difference in beam:
I have no problem with the quality of the beam, I see no artifacts, and the beam works very well for me to see clearly ahead. I like that the beam is much more throwy than the standard TS10 triple, and the TS10SG beam is still wide enough to show the entire bench in the photo
The TS10SG also works very well to find my cat, in addition to the bench ;-):
outdoors at night I do not mind the tint of the TS10SG, it works fine to spot my cat, and the bench.
I do not mind that there is no glass lens, for me it is actually better that the lens can not be broken if the light is dropped.
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Absolutely. Especially the diffuse spot is wasting a lot of potential throw. This beam offers better usability in the closest range (like for reeading a book or something), but in the end you have to decide what you want: a real pocket thrower (similar to Wuben E6) or just an allrounder. In current state, the TS10SG is more like a throwy allrounder, not a dedicated pocket thrower. However, the normal TS10 does the latter quite well.
Here is a picture where you can see it more clearly:
Here without markings:
The artifacts are there, they can be seen clearly in my whitewall shot, especially if the beam is moved on the wall. Unfortunately I can also see them on other smooth surfaces as my white wall.
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thank you for the photo with the circle showing the center hotspot plus the diffused corona. I find that combined 10 degree beam spread very useful for finding my cat in the yard
in addition to the central beam, including the diffused corona:
the optic produces a useful spill for seeing the ground in front of my feet:
do you consider any of the photos in this post, as having bad artifacts? I dont, but maybe we use the word differently.
artifacts in the beam, not in the photos.
Look at the lines radiating from the centre of the spot (visible in your last picture and also my picture where I have labelled them with “artifacts from lens”), which are reflections from the lens. This is not normal and should not be there with a lens.
I think many call those sort of petal shaped shadows in the spill artifacts. I suppose in a sense they are as they are caused by the way the TIR refracts/reflects the light internally.
For those wanting a nice smooth even beam from hotspot to the edge of the spill, maybe this is an issue. I find that using the light I focus on the highest light output from the center hot spot to see what I am looking at/ Because the field of view or our eyes is narrow,
( The field of view that is observed with sufficient resolution to read text typically spans about 6 degrees of arc, Wikipedia)
at distances over a couple of meters the unevenness in the spill becomes unnoticeable. In my real world use it is not a problem. Of course, like many things, if one notices this and fixates on it, I guess it may be distracting. For me it is not a problem. For my use, the little light puts plenty of light where I need it, disappears into a pocket, and has really decent battery life when used conservatively. The way I use mine I only have to charge the cell maybe once per month. I recharge when the voltage shows around 3.6 volts.
Of course it is a very small flashlight, so it has limitations. As I believe in the using the right tool for the job at hand, when I need a few hundred meters of throw, I simply use a light designed for that. But that light is not going to be nearly as good for comfortable EDC…
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The thing is: there are much better lenses out there, which could be used by Wurkkos. Instead they chose these strange Fresnel type lenses for not changing the bezel. It clearly looks to me that this lens was not made for these small-die high luminance LEDs.
The beam is not the biggest issue for me (in fact, the tint is my biggest point of criticism - if a rosy SFT-25R would be used, it would be okay for me). However, for me in current state the TS10 SG is not a dedicated pocket thrower, precisely because the lens does not fully utilise the potential of the LED, which is in general very good for throwers, so changing the lens is needed, in my opinion, to create a real pocket thrower TS10.
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The SG , like everything manufactured to a price point, has compromises. I think that Wurkkos did as much as they could to give people what they asked for within the constraints of budget, parts availability, and time.
Things can almost always be made to be “better”. But at what cost?
No it is not. It is simply an upgrade the the TS10 V2 for somewhat (actually considerably) increased throw.
Achieving this with no increase in bulk or price. Not bad, I think.
But yes, maybe people looking for a dedicated 14500 thrower should be aware that this is not the ultimate in the category. Just far better than the OG TS10. Which is what people asked for .
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thank you for the detailed discussion
I do agree that my last photo does show radial lines in the spill
that part of the beam lands at my feet, and the difference in brightness we see at close range on a wall is not noticeable in actual use because my eyes focus on the hotspot, and because the spill blends the radians in a way that I do not notice on normal terrain.
and also my picture where I have labelled them with “artifacts from lens”
I have not found which picture you are referring to, but its ok, as we do understand each other regarding my last photo
I believe the stock lens with the beaded areas around the outer part of the lens, does a very good job of blurring the radians.
I do agree this is not a long range thrower, and I hope some modders will build themselves other options with extended lenses and different optics.
Something for everyone… the modders can change the stock light to their satisfaction, while a buyer of a stock light can have a more throwy little pocket light that reaches farther than the TS10 Triple. Win Win
I also like to mod, Im hoping to install an sw45k in my TS10SG, and get rid of the Low CRI SFT25
I like that the TS10SG uses a 3535 mcpcb so I have the option to install a Nichia.
I do agree that from a modders perspective the flat little lens in the TS10SG is more limiting than a longer lens, with a longer bezel.
But I actually really like the way the TS10SG has accomplished delivering more throw, without making the light longer… Im very fond of the TS10 form factor as is.
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I agree
I dont expect a Tir lens to produce the type of smooth gradient spill that a reflector does. For me, a Tir is useful for the central beam it produces.
I do find radians in any of my Tir lights, around the outer edges of the beam, when I roll the light in my hands while shining at a wall up close…
In actual use my eye goes to the bright center of the beam, like you described.
Just for clarity: It is this pic you also quoted
I agree. It is still a compromise with this lens, it would be interesting to know whether and how the lens performs with other LEDs (dedomed 519A, for example).
The aux light looks really cool with this lens
Even reading is possible, altough it more looks like some sort of weird disco is going on
The white aux shown in previous picture (R, G, B combined) has 0.8 lumens, which is quite bright just for aux LEDs alone.
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Not quite, since there exist many TIRs that give no such artifacts. The fundamental cause of these artifacts is the rough surface finish of this particular TIR.
These lines are clearly visible even through the camera, which is already much worse at picking out artifacts than the human eye. In practice these artifacts are also more noticeable for another reason, which is that the beam is moving when the light is held by a human hand. The movement makes artifacts stand out particularly. For the sake of diffusion, a frosted finish on a smooth TIR is a far superior solution.
Cannot be said better!
There exists a previous discussion in this thread about the possibility that a LED with larger LES and lower surface intensity may actually out-throw the SFT25R in this optic. This is the final (and IMO most informative/helpful) post in the discussion.
If the previous possibility is true, then nothing. At no cost. Use a different LED and get more throw AND more lumens or CRI for free.
Changing a design always costs something for the manufacturer. It is a process. Including prototypes, testing and the manufacturer will undoubtedly charge for the changes. I think most of us just don’t understand the process… Nothing is free!
thanks for the link, here are the three photos from tuig 101
I do not know the distance he is trying to reach w the beams.
It may be useful to start mentioning some actual distances and lumens that are used in the photos
my backyard testing shows the TS10SG easily reaches 50 feet with just 200 lumens, while the TS10 Triple does not:
The TS10SG optic makes some fun patterns when using the Aux:
There is some solution for getting a very nice allrounder-throwy beam: frosting it.
I used paint thinner, which makes the plastic frosted. Important is to use the thinner evenly to avoid differently frosted areas.
The beam is absolutely smooth now:
comparison to original TS10 (4000 K CSP LEDs):
Both images with Turbo (150/150), the hedge with the metal pole is 18.3 metres or 60 feet away.
The frosted lens still produces a throw more than twice as high as the original TS10. I can give some measurements as soon the 14500 is fully charged, but with 3.9 V battery I get over 8000 lx, so I think with fully charged battery I could get over 10000 lx.
Now the beam is very nice and absolutely smooth. Unfortunately even with a lot of heat I was not able to open the bezel for changing the LED, hopefully I am able to do this at some day.
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