Maybe a new forum smiley thingamajig

What have I missed I’ve been away for a few weeks.

I pride my self on being belligerent but I don’t feel the need the need to go online and talk trash. To who or for what reason are these people trying to prove a point? I don’t agree with most things and most things make me angry ( yes I’m grumpy) but I just I deal with it with out being a goof usually. Actually scratch that the other day I Thru a Pan outside because who ever used it didn’t clean it after I cleaned up lol. One of my brothers made a mess every time some one makes a mess i restrain my self some what lol.
People who join blf need to learn to restrain there fingers!

Thanks again SB

ARsee wrote:

Kindle wrote:

ARsee wrote:

I tagged member “Dirt“ for UN-necessary comments. There’s no excuse for comments like that

After he apologized?

Uh, No. Before. Right after he posted it. I was in the thread at the time.

The offending comment (his) was since removed

Thanks. I should have realized that. lol

Another one bit the dust

I think maybe it’s about time this thread got a bump. I’m not going to mention any threads or names, I’ll just hope people read the OP.

Scallywag wrote:

I think maybe it’s about time this thread got a bump. I’m not going to mention any threads or names, I’ll just hope people read the OP.

+1

Too many petty arguments in some threads at the moment. Takes away from what would otherwise be an interesting, helpful and friendly discussion.

Sometimes ignoring trolls is effective, because they can get bored and leave. But in practice, it seems like that frequently doesn’t work. Usually at least one or two people will respond, and then things escalate. The troll gets exactly what they wanted. But even when ignored, the lack of any consequences often just lets them know their behavior will be tolerated, so they keep doing it.

So we have a rude/report button. It helps direct admin attention to problems, without the loud and distracting escalation which occurs with a direct confrontation. It seems like this probably doesn’t get used enough though, because BLF sometimes has people willfully causing trouble for months or even years before they get removed.

Anyway, I’ve been thinking about the rules and cultural norms here a lot lately… and I’m not sure the current approach is optimal. I think there may be some subtle issues involved.

The emphasis on not responding to bad behavior makes silence the default and encouraged response. But usually when there are problems (not just here but in any part of life), saying nothing is not the answer.

In general, most people are pretty nice. They try to behave and contribute, and feel bad about reporting anyone… so it usually takes exceptionally bad behavior to get reported. They might be okay with asking the person to stop, but we have a cultural norm here to not do that. So instead of doing any of those things, the nice people just … don’t show up as often. Sometimes they leave entirely. And that’s a loss for all of us.

Avoiding conflict is a very different thing than resolving conflict. Avoiding it makes things more peaceful for those who aren’t involved, but typically allows problems to continue. Resolving it tends to be louder, but also faster and more effective. Pushing back even a little can make some people explode, which passes the threshold for what others are willing to report, and they get booted sooner rather than later.

Perhaps we shouldn’t be silent by default. Not responding may be more peaceful in the short term, but it can have big long-term consequences.

Tell you one thing:

If I knew I was going to be attacked by several people, I would not have confronted the person that should have been confronted.

I would have just left it to Mr. Admin, like I usually do.

TK, I agree that resolving conflict, even if it seems to be escalating the situation at first, is almost always better than simply ignoring a problem and hoping it goes away. But like you said, we have a culture of de-escalation at any cost. And I think it has lost us some very valuable members. Surely, some of the members who are no longer showing up have other reasons. But I guess we won’t know how many left in a huff because of trollish behavior being allowed to grow unchecked by people who thought they were doing what is right and ignoring bad behavior. I find it can be a tough call at times, because part of being a “friendly” forum is certainly to have grace for each other to an extent. Knowing when really is the right time to do something, and what that something should be, can be hard to nail down.

You do seem to be a little high strung at times though RC, taking things too personally.
Just a thought.

I find myself writing out strong replies sometimes but then don’t post as it would be very contrary to the current rules.
I agree that the silent treatment is not the best way in dealing with, but speaking up also leads to more conflict as some people are real bronsons behind a screen so nobody backs down and the argument continues on the forum when it would be very different in a face to face situation. People forget that.
You don’t want a ruff highlander letting loose a tirade on ya unrestricted, that’s for sure.
So I usually just watch..
Personally, I don’t mind the little conflicts we see from time to time, the forum is for entertainment purposes.
Often there is more chat here about non flashlight related topics, which I do find odd but anyway..
Trolls, some of the trolls are funny, (sometimes) so long as it doesn’t go too far but that’s just me and we do get the odd moon biscuit from time to time.
They must be destroyed
People are people, we’re never all going to be sitting around holding hands singing Kumbaya and that’s okay.
You all do live on Earth right?
Sometimes I can’t tell..
But we do have to live together.

Longer estsblished members, there could be more grace involved in peoples thought processes, if someone points out that one is doing something that annoys another then instead of an immediate emotional outburst, a little contemplation on the why of the matter would be far more appropriate before a response is compiled and sent.
Remember, you’re always right, as long as you agree with me
Chill out and be excellent to each other, I’m away back to my cave..

Well the admin says he wants trolls ignored, so that’s non-negotiable.
The main wisdom in this is also aimed at the judge. What I mean is if you judge someone a troll, you are probably too triggered to respond within the rules of the forum.

I think the labeling of people is just as big of a problem. Let’s do less of that.

These particular individuals, unruly guests, puppies, trolls? We have to call them something!
Not so much labeling people as their actions on the forum, anyway the Admin judged to label them that so it’s non-negotiable

Joshk wrote:

I think the labeling of people is just as big of a problem. Let’s do less of that.

People often live up to the expectations others set for them… For better or for worse.

Labels can exacerbate an already tense situation. I think it’s more effective to address the unwanted behaviour directly.

sb56637 wrote:

I think Joshk is referring to not calling out specific users as “trolls”. And that’s the point, whatever you want to call them, it only gets them more riled when users are labeled in public as troublemakers.

Yes, I meant it’s the calling out that’s the part of the problem. Some users have assigned themselves the roll of “troll hunter” and call them out publicly. Which in itself hurts feelings.

Joshk wrote:

Some users have assigned themselves the roll of “troll hunter” and call them out publicly.

Yeah, these ‘forum police’ sometimes they kind of go overboard or overbearing with the role, inevitably starting a fire themselves.

CRX bronsons behind the screens!!!! and moon biscuits!!!!. I wish I was smart enough to troll you wonderful people here! These adjectives are fantastic!

Part of the solution would be less outdated forum software.*** An option to hide posts of certain users.

People who look/sound like trolls not always are.
Some people are just very direct (due to not having English as their first language).
They have a honest opinion about …. while a 1000 users have a total opposite opinion.

My point is that people also are called trolls by people who are easily feel offended.
There is a grey area.

As an example I could start a thread about firmware XYZ. Some firmware is extremely liked on this forum. But I’m dead honest when I say not by me. So when I would start a thread listing 20 things I want to see changed in firmaware XYZ, would that be trolling?

***= Was that a trollisch remark, a honest opionion, or even a fact?

tatasal wrote:

Joshk wrote:

Some users have assigned themselves the roll of “troll hunter” and call them out publicly.

Yeah, these ‘forum police’ sometimes they kind of go overboard or overbearing with the role, inevitably starting a fire themselves.

And might be trolls….

A troll is defined an as someone causing strife. That can also be done by calling others trolls.

ToyKeeper wrote:

Sometimes ignoring trolls is effective, because they can get bored and leave. But in practice, it seems like that frequently doesn’t work. Usually at least one or two people will respond, and then things escalate. The troll gets exactly what they wanted. But even when ignored, the lack of any consequences often just lets them know their behavior will be tolerated, so they keep doing it.

So we have a rude/report button. It helps direct admin attention to problems, without the loud and distracting escalation which occurs with a direct confrontation. It seems like this probably doesn’t get used enough though, because BLF sometimes has people willfully causing trouble for months or even years before they get removed.

Anyway, I’ve been thinking about the rules and cultural norms here a lot lately… and I’m not sure the current approach is optimal. I think there may be some subtle issues involved.

The emphasis on not responding to bad behavior makes silence the default and encouraged response. But usually when there are problems (not just here but in any part of life), saying nothing is not the answer.

In general, most people are pretty nice. They try to behave and contribute, and feel bad about reporting anyone… so it usually takes exceptionally bad behavior to get reported. They might be okay with asking the person to stop, but we have a cultural norm here to not do that. So instead of doing any of those things, the nice people just … don’t show up as often. Sometimes they leave entirely. And that’s a loss for all of us.

Avoiding conflict is a very different thing than resolving conflict. Avoiding it makes things more peaceful for those who aren’t involved, but typically allows problems to continue. Resolving it tends to be louder, but also faster and more effective. Pushing back even a little can make some people explode, which passes the threshold for what others are willing to report, and they get booted sooner rather than later.

Perhaps we shouldn’t be silent by default. Not responding may be more peaceful in the short term, but it can have big long-term consequences.

A very well reasoned and thought out response. And it’s not one I disagree with at all.

I had some feelings about some threads yesterday, and a perceived recent trend. I did notice that it seemed like some users were responding to the trolls in a helpful way, while others were responding in ways that seemed to escalate things. I also completely understand sb56637’s stance. It’s hard to decide how to deal with someone who may violate rules in response to rules violations. We even see widely different laws regarding responses to aggression in the real world, depending on where one lives.

I think CRX said it better than I would:

CRX wrote:

Longer estsblished members, there could be more grace involved in peoples thought processes, if someone points out that one is doing something that annoys another then instead of an immediate emotional outburst, a little contemplation on the why of the matter would be far more appropriate before a response is compiled and sent.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/68228

This is another thread where there was also a topic of discussion with flaming and newish members about a certain thread getting out of hand and several people have given some insightful and different perspectives.

To my credit, I did not label the latest troublemaker a troll, and if I had known that he was, I would not have confronted him.

I think it's natural to defend yourself when someone attacks you, but if I confront people that are up to no good less, maybe I'll be attacked less.

And I do tend to be high strung when people repeatedly attack me.

See if you're not stressed out when a bunch of people unnecessarily attack you for defending BLF.

ZoomieFan wrote:

tatasal wrote:

Joshk wrote:

Some users have assigned themselves the roll of “troll hunter” and call them out publicly.

Yeah, these ‘forum police’ sometimes they kind of go overboard or overbearing with the role, inevitably starting a fire themselves.

And might be trolls….

A troll is defined an as someone causing strife. That can also be done by calling others trolls.

And when someone apparently appoints themself BLF Moderator and breaks numerous rules to call out someone publicly for breaking or allegedly breakinging a rule…. something is inherently wrong.
It is especially sadly comical when this is “supposedly” done to protect the integrity of BLF. Give me a break…

Then they use thinly disguised words such as “a-hole, ice-holes, etc.” and think they are blameless. Calling a member “Einstein” in a condescending manner.
It does not wash……

The excuses don’t wash, the reasons don’t wash, nothing washes. They, by their lack of discernment & people skills in a particular situation; have not only created a problem… but also escalate it to a much worse level as they continue to righteously defend their mistakes.

And it is especially disappointing to me when a ‘self appointed moderator’ calls someone out in a confrontational manner & then cries all kind of foul when the called out person makes a simple reply. . It utterly amazes me.

IMO….. we would all be much better off if we worried less about being “offended” by every little thing and concentrated on ourselves instead.

I thought it was a good idea at the time.

Why allow over 900 f-words to litter BLF?

Of course hindsight is 20/20.

If I knew it was going to to blow up like it did, I wouldn't have said anything publicly.

Apparently I'm terrible at deescalating bad situations and I should leave that work to Mr. Admin.

Yep… Hindsight is 20/20 (20/10 sometimes for me) …. learn from it & move on.

And if you get right down to it….. there are very, very, few true TROLLS on BLF.

Also…. Nev is not a Troll….. nor is he a constant troublemaker.
He, like the rest of us; sometimes does, says, or posts something that someone may not like. So what… we all do it from time to time. Can’t we just relax a bit??

His manner & sense of humor may differ from some… but so what?? Do we label anyone a troll who does not fit in our particular box??

Nev has an avatar atm that I personally think is hilarious… but that is just my opinion. Others will love it & others will hate it…. that is their opinion.
Who cares either way.. move on.

Everything is not political……

teacher wrote:

….. A kind word in private or possibly in public possibly would have achieved a better outcome…. we’ll never know.

Yep… Hindsight is 20/20 (20/10 sometimes for me) …. learn from it & move on.

And if you get right down to it….. there are very, very, few true TROLLS on BLF.

Also…. Nev is not a Troll….. nor is he a constant troublemaker.

His manner & sense of humor may differ from some… but so what?? Do we label anyone a troll who does not fit in our particular box??

Nev has an avatar atm that I personally think is hilarious… but that is just my opinion. Others will love it & others will hate it…. that is their opinion.
Who cares either way.. move on.

Everything is not political……

Yeah, but TBH, your bum always looked big.

DavidEF wrote:

Yeah, but TBH, your bum always looked big.