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JasonWW
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DENGOH wrote:
Jason, I measure SIRA60DP Rdsoff to be non measurable with my dmm. Haikelite fake SIR800 measured about 55Mohm. I think this 55Mohm means it is not completely open. Just my suspicions why it let some current through.

Did you apply power to the source and drain when you measured? I hear you need to do that in order to get a true resistance reading.

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No voltage applied. I meant i measured Rdsoff, not Rdson.

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Yep, just as I suspected. They did indeed use fake FET’s against my will and recommendations.

In their defense though they are apparently overflowing on china supplier shelves. Every driver I have worked on in china so far has ended up with a fake FET on the first prototype. Which is why I insist on prototypes being tested by me. HL never sent me a driver to test so I was not able to test it in person.

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DENGOH wrote:
I measured standby current consumption as below:
MT03 12000LM 149uA
MT03 21000LM blue led off 360uA to 460uA

The LED leakage seems to be getting brighter. I have to take out batteries to be safe.


Now standby current is stable. It’s about 58uA blue led off and 166uA blue led on.

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JasonWW
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Texas_Ace wrote:
Yep, just as I suspected. They did indeed use fake FET’s against my will and recommendations.

Are you sure Haikelite knew they were buying imitation units or maybe their supplier said they were real and then sent them fakes.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Yep, just as I suspected. They did indeed use fake FET’s against my will and recommendations.

In their defense though they are apparently overflowing on china supplier shelves. Every driver I have worked on in china so far has ended up with a fake FET on the first prototype. Which is why I insist on prototypes being tested by me. HL never sent me a driver to test so I was not able to test it in person.


Ya, too bad HL is not investing more time and money into getting real FET. It could have saved them and their customers from troubles. Based on quantity they buy they can get quite low price per FET. I don’t understand what’s their logic.

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Texas_Ace
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JasonWW wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Yep, just as I suspected. They did indeed use fake FET’s against my will and recommendations.
Are you sure Haikelite knew they were buying imitation units or maybe their supplier said they were real and then sent them fakes.

I don’t think they knew they were fake when they ordered them but I did tell them to be on the look out and send me a sample to check which is what they didn’t do.

It was not a malicious use of fake components by any means, they just skipped out on the final step that would of prevented it.

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DENGOH wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Yep, just as I suspected. They did indeed use fake FET’s against my will and recommendations.

In their defense though they are apparently overflowing on china supplier shelves. Every driver I have worked on in china so far has ended up with a fake FET on the first prototype. Which is why I insist on prototypes being tested by me. HL never sent me a driver to test so I was not able to test it in person.


Ya, too bad HL is not investing more time and money into getting real FET. It could have saved them and their customers from troubles. Based on quantity they buy they can get quite low price per FET. I don’t understand what’s their logic.

I am not going to get into a lot of detail but lets just say there are 2 fractions in the HL upper management. 1 side is good and I support today, the other is classic china business practice that leads to issues like this.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
The FET is supposed to be the SIR800 posted before, this is what I used in the drivers I hand made and have not heard of any issues with the 100+ that are floating around.

The production drivers though have used fake FET’s in at least a few of them, it was supposed to be corrected but no idea if it ever was.

The fake FET’s are most assuredly a problem and not up to the task of this light for extended use.

Hey TA!

I was just reading all these recent posts with some concern. I just received last week an MT03 TA. If mine has a fake FET driver is there an easy way for me to identify that?

When you say that the fake FET’s are not suitable for extended use it makes me concerned this light will fail shortly after whatever the warranty period is given that it’s not going to be a daily use light.

I’m light years behind you guys in technical understanding and mechanical skill but I’m familiar with working with electricity. I’ve never worked on small circuitry before but don’t want my recent investment and so far favorable purchase to be for not

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mattadores wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
The FET is supposed to be the SIR800 posted before, this is what I used in the drivers I hand made and have not heard of any issues with the 100+ that are floating around.

The production drivers though have used fake FET’s in at least a few of them, it was supposed to be corrected but no idea if it ever was.

The fake FET’s are most assuredly a problem and not up to the task of this light for extended use.

Hey TA!

I was just reading all these recent posts with some concern. I just received last week an MT03 TA. If mine has a fake FET driver is there an easy way for me to identify that?

When you say that the fake FET’s are not suitable for extended use it makes me concerned this light will fail shortly after whatever the warranty period is given that it’s not going to be a daily use light.

I’m light years behind you guys in technical understanding and mechanical skill but I’m familiar with working with electricity. I’ve never worked on small circuitry before but don’t want my recent investment and so far favorable purchase to be for not


It seems like the majority of fake FETs are doing their job. Problem signs are if the main leds stay on or if you increase the current through the FET by adding bypasses to the springs. Too much current could make the FET fail completely.

I imagine all these factory drivers have the cheaper FETs. Yours included.

Maybe DENGOH can hold the old FET next to the new one to photo the difference.

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Yeah, in most cases the FET will be ok as long as you do not modify the light. Not ideal but ok.

Luckily the ones that do fail are only a $2 replacement FET to fix them. Although that assumes you can install it, but usually you can find a repair shop that can do it for a few bucks worst case.

If you fully charge up the highest drain batteries you have and disable the thermal protection then let it run until the light is ~80-90C it should be a good stress test to see if the FET will fail. If it survives that it is unlikely it will die from normal use.

You should reset the thermal protection after this of course.

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Thank you for the suggestion.

I’ll run the thermal test tonight. I have an IR thermometer and I’ll be using fully charged 30Q’s so it sounds like I have all the right materials to complete the test.

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I almost just bought one. Understanding the concern and how to mitigate and test for it, from my perspective it’s off my list until the next version is out and gets tested. Haikelite needs to be deliberately careful after all the potential customers they lost already with other bungles, ignorance is not an excuse any longer.

Nokoff..still Made in China 山寨主義

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Haikelite must put assembled light into a dark box to detect this faint light leakage. Their operator will miss it in a bright room.

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I think the fake has big dot at the bottom left. Who has real Vishay SIR800 and care to share pictures?

These two Haikelite SIR800 giving me trouble right from start without extended use. Notice the dot is big. And I have to really adjust my phone camera angle in order to get clear picture on the printing.

Vishay SIR800 picture that I can find on internet. It has smaller dot printed.

And the Vishay SIRA60 I have bought has smaller dot too.

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Here from an old mod:

And from a Manker U21 mod:

These were from ~2 years ago. I was buying the SIR800DP's from MtnE and maybe Mouser or Arrow at the time.

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More:

The better 404:

Even better:

 

SIRA20DP spec sheet: https://www.vishay.com/docs/76212/sira20dp.pdf

SIRA60DP spec sheet: https://www.vishay.com/docs/66777/sira60dp.pdf

 

Maybe the A20 is slightly better, but some of the timing is a little slower.

 

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Tom E, thanks for those pictures. There are a few differences compared to suspected fake SIR800.

1.The big dot on fake SIR800 is printed, I use a big magnifier and confirm that. While your pictures shows it should be engraved.
2.The big dot position on fake SIR800 is higher from the bottom edge.

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In summary suspected fake SIR800 has cosmetic differences below:

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DENGOH wrote:
I think the fake has big dot at the bottom left. Who has real Vishay SIR800 and care to share pictures?

These two Haikelite SIR800 giving me trouble right from start without extended use. Notice the dot is big. And I have to really adjust my phone camera angle in order to get clear picture on the printing.

Vishay SIR800 picture that I can find on internet. It has smaller dot printed.

And the Vishay SIRA60 I have bought has smaller dot too.


The top picture is not showing up for me.

I happen to have some that I bought from MTN E a couple months ago. There is no printing on them, just laser etching.


.

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JasonWW
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DENGOH wrote:
Tom E, thanks for those pictures. There are a few differences compared to suspected fake SIR800.

1.The big dot on fake SIR800 is printed, I use a big magnifier and confirm that. While your pictures shows it should be engraved.
2.The big dot position on fake SIR800 is higher from the bottom edge.


Both of these differences may be normal production deviations and not the sign of one being imitation.

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It could be the older 800's had the big dot because mine shown above date back quite a while. Even in the last 2 years, if I used them, it was to deplete old inventory. I haven't bought SIR800DP's in years because they were first obsoleted by the 404  then the A20, plus the Infineon.

Bought my first 800's in Jan 2016.

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In summary suspected fake SIR800 has cosmetic differences below:


Jason, is this pic showing properly for you.
I mean to say laser printing of the big dot.

TomE, yours has big dot that’s part of the IC package, which is crafted on it, but mine are laser printed and at higher position.

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Maybe we should send some pics to Vishay. I wonder will they respond.

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DENGOH wrote:
In summary suspected fake SIR800 has cosmetic differences below:


Jason, is this pic showing properly for you.
I mean to say laser printing of the big dot.

TomE, yours has big dot that’s part of the IC package, which is crafted on it, but mine are laser printed and at higher position.


Yes, I can see this picture. Is there supposed to be a difference between the left one and the right one? They look the same to me.

Some of Tom E’s pictures show the molded dot, but not all. His pic below shows a laser etched dot. I think the manufacturers vary how they label the chips. Vishay may also have more than one factory making the chips with slight differences in the labeling or one factory might do a molded dot and one a laser dot, etc… It is all quite complex.

There may not be a way to tell a real from a fake unless it’s through electrical measurements. You could have a real manufacturer crank out cheaply made, untested chips and put real, legit looking markings on them. Most will work properly so long as you don’t push it too close to it’s rated limits (the real chips rated limits). Some might have some “leakage” when off.

Here is your original picture of the leaky FET.

If I compare it to your picture of two chips I can see that the laser etched dot is quite a bit higher than the laser etched dot in Tom E’s picture. Is that the point you are trying to make?

I don’t know if that’s proof of a fake or just a slight difference in manufacturing.

I wonder if Vishay keeps a catalog of fake chips or pictures of fakes that they collect over the years? That would be interesting.

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Those two identical FET are the suspicious SIR800 gave me trouble.
Yes, their position of big dot is not tally with real SIR800.

I think all SIR800 pics by Tom E have molded dot.

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DENGOH wrote:

I think all SIR800 pics by Tom E have molded dot.

Molded dots don’t typically change color. Laser etched dots look more white because it burns into the surface. Same reason the lettering looks white. Who knows, it’s hard to tell by pictures.

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DENGOH wrote:
Maybe we should send some pics to Vishay. I wonder will they respond.

They won’t most likely. I tried contacting a few manufactures about fakes in the past all to no avail. They either ignored me completely or gave me a run around and ended up saying I need to talk to the distributor I got it from, which was not possible of course. Facepalm

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Well, have you tried saying you’ve had fakes with the 5000pcs+ you’ve ordered?

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Well, have you tried saying you’ve had fakes with the 5000pcs+ you’ve ordered?

I spent a few months trying to track down fake attiny85’s at one point, they were super slow to respond and after all that ended up getting no where and just saying to contact the distributor.

Some manufactures might be better to work with but the big ones just don’t seem to care for small orders like ours (small being anything sub ~100k units).

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