Second Generation Silver Plated High Current Beryllium Copper Springs and 95+CRI SST20!

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BlueSwordM
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The rest of the new orders will be shipped tomorrow.

I’m also in the plan of making a 3rd gen spring with one very nice differentiation.

Basically, we will be using multi-layer plating!

It will be a nickel-copper-nickel plating.

Just to make sure people aren’t worried, this isn’t an downgrade from the silver plating.
In fact, it’s an upgrade.

That is because the TOTAL layer thickness of the silver is around 17-20um as I wanted it to be. I could have gone thicker at 20um+ as initially specified or even higher as Pirx, but the cost per spring became a bit prohibitive. So that change was mostly done for lower contact resistance along with slightly higher conductivity.

However, with a nickel-copper-nickle plating, it can be changed quite easily.

With a total layer thickness of 50um(25um per side, which is easily doable since we can use the whole surface area of the spring wire), we could get a massive, relatively to the nickel and silver plating, performance boost.

It would be akin to adding 0,130mm of thickness to the existing 1,0mm BeCu wire, but without the thickness impacting full compression height.

We would be gaining a 27% gain in terms of conductivity.

I am also going back to the old design, with only a tweak to the top diameter to get more conical compression.
Otherwise, that would mean we would go from an approximate resistance of 9mOhms down to an impressive 7,1mOhms.

Other than that, I have some other good news, but I’ll be writing about it later on.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

MikeMacD
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Thanks for the update! Thumbs Up

808Hi
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I’m interested in the 3rd gen springs

BlueSwordM
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Excellent.

On another note, I shipped the springs orders today, which included yours, but went after 5PM, so will be sent tomorrow.

I will also try to an experimental electroplating process to plate lights with different variations of metals.

If it actually works, then I have a nice opportunity for a copper plated Thorfire TK15, BLF Q8, FW3A, etc.

That would just be dope, especially since the copper/nickel/silver layers could be as large as 50um thick, which would make for a super durable coating.

I could also try chromium, but I don’t want La Sureté du Québec kicking on my door, and myself to die of cancer a few years later.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

moderator007
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What about a batch with gold plating. Any idea the price?

BlueSwordM
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The cost would be:
Oof

But, it would be a nice idea for a much more expensive spring.

Nickel-copper(50um)-Gold plating for the best setup possible.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

DavidEF
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BlueSwordM wrote:
The cost would be:
Oof

But, it would be a nice idea for a much more expensive spring.

Nickel-copper(50um)-Gold plating for the best setup possible.


According to Engineering Toolbox, both Copper and Silver have better conductivity than Gold. The only advantage Gold has is that it doesn’t tarnish or corrode.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

BlueSwordM
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Also, when not tarnished/corroded, a silver plating is actually better in terms of contact resistance and conductivity.

Gold would be the best option for no oxidization or resistance to sulfur degradation(tarnish), but would be prohibitively expensive for “small batches”, since there is a MOQ for gold salts used in electroplating.

Something like this would be dope though, although I would not like to see the cost per spring at that point:
Flash nickel-Silver(50um)-Gold(10um)

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

HONDARIDER
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Hopefully mine will show up this week. Already have a project awaiting them. I’m excited. Ever priced a braided wire spring? Bet those would be high. Would look awesome in a custom light though.

BlueSwordM
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Actually, no, but the work involved probably makes the cost prohibitive, especially in developed countries.

On that point though, the best we can get in terms of springs contacts, for now, are dual BeCu multi-layer plated springs, meaning we are limited to 20-23A of current.

I’ve been looking into other solutions that can handle even higher currents, but designing one that can fit a standard flashlight and multiple cell sizes will be very challenging, and I’m venturing into completely new territory.

Even then, just asking if multi-layer differential metal plating was available for electroplating to the spring company made them surprised, and they had to go and ask the electroplating company directly.
The response itself was even more surprising since they said very few companies, let alone individuals, do different metal multi-layer electroplating, since it’s mostly reserved for very high performance stuff, and most companies prefer using the standard nickel/silver/gold plating.

Back on track, just designing the current springs took a lot of time, math, research and effort, so this next one would be the real challenge.

If I could manage to do something like this myself, then it would make bypasses a thing of the past.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

DavidEF
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BlueSwordM wrote:

If I could manage to do something like this myself, then it would make bypasses a thing of the past.

What do you mean by this?

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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BlueSwordM
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A design that can equal spring bypasses even in the most extreme of cases, that can fit standard flashlight tailcaps, driver side tailcaps, etc.

Even dual BeCu springs hit their limit at extreme currents(23A+), and spring bypasses become worth it if you have the battery and light setup to push past that.

Meaning with a 20700/21700, it becomes viable again to use spring bypasses,

I want to equal spring bypasses in every way possible. That is my goal!

This isn’t my final goal though. I didn’t exactly tell people here that I’m not only looking to make springs for flashlights, and
I’m designing something else too which does use springs, but something that ends up being more… impressive.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Marc E
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Received mine, thanks Blue!
Will be in for some gen 3 when available, look forward to following your exploits in getting to that stage.

BlueSwordM wrote:
The response itself was even more surprising since they said very few companies, let alone individuals, do different metal multi-layer electroplating, since it’s mostly reserved for very high performance stuff, and most companies prefer using the standard nickel/silver/gold plating.

I think that’s a fair description of the lights you’re designing these springs for Big Smile
BlueSwordM
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Yes, but they were surprised I was doing it for flashlight springs.

What most companies do is just straight up doing multiple baths.

It does end up in thicker platings, but can get extremely expensive, and plating time becomes slower as the layer becomes thicker.

Doing multi-layer differential plating is something that can be used to bypass that, but being more complex and requiring more calculations, apparently, most companies don’t bother doing this, except for very high performance stuff as mentioned before.

Seems like flashlights spring are going on the bleeding edge Smile

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

shirnask
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Mine arrived! My wife was standing there and tried to confiscate some of them because they are so pretty, saying she could make something out of those. I bought her off with the promise of a new flashlight. (She didn’t know that one of the FW3A’s on my list is for her anyway)

DavidEF
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shirnask wrote:
Mine arrived! My wife was standing there and tried to confiscate some of them because they are so pretty, saying she could make something out of those. I bought her off with the promise of a new flashlight. (She didn’t know that one of the FW3A’s on my list is for her anyway)

My wife and daughter both agreed they’re very pretty… almost jewelry. But, when I asked my wife if she wanted a couple of them to wear as earrings, she didn’t hesitate to turn down the offer. She’s not really into “unusual” or “interesting” jewelry. Oh well. LOL

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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BlueSwordM
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Maybe I should stay with a silver plating then. Smile

That would make the multi-layer plating more expensive though, but the added beauty and lower contact resistance would be a nice boon.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

MikeMacD
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Received my order BlueSwordM! Excellent stuff! Thanks!

AEDe
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Package received, thanks. Shipping is extremely fast 27.03(on letter) -6.04

HONDARIDER
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My springs and SST-20’s came in today. Thanks BlueSwordM. I’m in on the next batch as well.

DavidEF
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These springs are so easy to solder that I’m worried I haven’t got them soldered securely enough. I removed the stock double springs from a Sofirn Q8 and put these springs in their place. It was really slow and difficult to remove the old springs. Maybe the springs or the board they were on was soaking up the heat? But when I put the Blue™ Springs on and touched the soldering iron tip to the bottom ring, the springs stuck quickly. Anybody have any idea if that’s normal or if I probably have cold joints?

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

contactcr
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It’s normal as far as I can tell. I mean think about it. It’s basically copper so it conducts heat like the copper traces. The solder melting is the love flowing from one copper to another

DavidEF
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contactcr wrote:
It’s normal as far as I can tell. I mean think about it. It’s basically copper so it conducts heat like the copper traces. The solder melting is the love flowing from one copper to another

The reason I’m worried is that normally, you have to heat up the copper significantly before the solder will really stick to it. But maybe silver works differently?

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

BlueSwordM
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@DavidEF, steel is super hard to solder to.

The opposite is true with copper, nickel, silver, and a thick layer of gold: it’s so easy to solder it’s not even funny.

There are 2 reasons for this, and a bonus one:

1. Steel has chromium, and forms a chromium layer that can penetrate a layer of thin gold, which is why something like gold plated steel springs solder poorly, even when gold plated.

2. Steel has poor thermal conductivity compared to nickel, and especially copper and silver. For this reason, the soldering iron can transfer the heat to the solderable area very quickly, making soldering a breeze.

Bonus reason: Nickel and silver don’t form oxides, and even silver tarnish isn’t an oxide that prevents soldering, meaning nickel and silver platings make the soldering even easier.
That’s the reason why soldering pure copper that is oxidized is so hard: copper oxide has very poor thermal conductivity.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

HONDARIDER
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I have had very poor results when soldering with pure copper. Tried to make some copper buttons but no luck getting solder to stick to the copper. Tried heating the copper also and it started to turn black. What are the tricks to soldering copper?

DavidEF
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Thanks for the explanation. I guess it’s something I will have to (happily Wink ) get accustomed to!

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

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HONDARIDER wrote:
I have had very poor results when soldering with pure copper. Tried to make some,copper buttons but no luck. What are the tricks to soldering copper?

I’ve found with copper, you need to dump heat into it quickly, or else the copper itself will wick the heat away from the area to be soldered. Also, use plenty of flux. I find it helps too, if you melt a bit of solder onto the tip of your iron, then use the solder itself to transfer heat to the copper, rather than the soldering iron tip. That way, when the copper is ready, the solder will be there, ready to flow.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

BlueSwordM
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@HONDARIDER:

1. Stick a bit of HCL, or hydrochloric acid/muriatic acid on it. That will destroy the copper oxides, but not the copper underneath.
2. Sand the copper buttons using 200-400 grit sandpaper, then use fine steel wool. Not will it make it very shiny, but also get rid of the remaining copper oxide.
3. Use flux.
4. Use a flat tip soldering iron.
5. Melt a bit of solder on your soldering iron.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

HONDARIDER
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Thanks guys. Had some sucess getting solder on the buttons. Now to try and transfer that to a driver is my next task. Really wasn’t that hard. Might have been a lack of patience. Facepalm

DavidEF
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HONDARIDER wrote:
Thanks guys. Had some sucess getting solder on the buttons. Now to try and transfer that to a driver is my next task. Really wasn’t that hard. Might have been a lack of patience. Facepalm

Eh, the driver is the easy part, assuming it’s not totally crowded or something. Pre-coat the pad with a bit of solder, add a drop of flux, place the copper button on top with the soldered side down and heat it up. Since both the driver pad and the copper button will have already been soldered, all you have to do is get them to melt together with a little heat. You should be able to just hold your soldering iron tip to the top of the copper button and let the heat pass through.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

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