Yep Kawi, I thought about the LD-2 but it might have heat issues running 8A to a triple.
The KISS rule applies to a first responder type light. With these complex user interfaces like Narsil, while you yourself might understand how to operate it handing it off to a fellow officer makes for a non functional light. Straight forward basic simple operation is a must so it transfers across the board in emergency scenario’s…. a woman is hanging by her seat belt in a car that is dangling off a bridge, who’s got time to figure out what the switch does? Or where it is even?
This is why I prefer tail clicky only. The side switch can be difficult to locate in an emergency (or even non emergency) and with gloves it can be not only difficult to find but hard to operate too. (Think Firefighter, big heavy gloves, yeah, one switch, in the tail, hard to go wrong with that.)
Yea, I suggested the LD-2 as well in a pm just a few mins ago. Downside is no switch indicator LED support, no 1 or 2 cell option (not a buck driver), but can be configured for 8A max with a resistor change.
The LD-2 in the Courui is set at 9amps 2S3P. I have some LD-2’s set at 12 amps for XHP70’s. I have a LD-2 M2 4S coming for a XHP35. It’s Linear, temp regulated and current controlled. Proper heat sinking and potted like all rough use lights should be, the driver is fine. As far as tail cap and E-switch it still works. Just like you said Tom no lighted indicator option. But maybe Niven could make what is needed? I don’t know just throwing it out there!! I too would agree Tail cap only, just like 90%of my Lights! :+1: Edit: But with the tail cap being able to set levels and e-switch, the tail cap could be used in an emergency and the e-switch for search and rescue???
I forgot about that, yeah, the LD-2 would be a good choice and has a nice option group from power levels to UI as well as duplicity in the dual switches.
Definitely something to consider, and a BLF member driver as well.
If you all are talking about a flashlight the size of the LD-2, I’m out. I thought you were going for a “semi-pocketable” flashlight like the DQG but not quite that small. #MyTwoCents
Dude, we’re talking about LED4POWER’s LD-2 driver. 17mm, check out Kawiboy’s links…
Edit:
The LD-2 with 6A set up would probably be ideal. They come with NTC resistors that attach onto the actual mcpcb near the emitter so thermal step down is accurate and precise. I’ve forgotten just how nice these drivers are, and I’ve got 7 of em sitting on my bench unused! lol
EditII: For accuracy, scratch the 7, I’ve got 6… modified one for 12V 4 Series XHP-35 in a big MaxToch light and just last week I put one in an Sinner 18650 Ti/Cu triple. I had 8 to begin with.
Bingo! Right on the mark. All of the lights I have built for first responders are exactly that… fast, simple to operate and typically 3 mode, LMH. They have never even wanted a side switch…always a tail switch and most of them have wanted that tailored in adjustment to their exact liking. Some want it so if they breathe on the switch boot the light comes on… others want it almost a full depress.
That being said, I figure for the most part not one of these lights will be the same as when shipped 2 days after arrival to a BLF member. 15 minutes for Dale! 25 minutes for MRsDNF! (Aussies are slow) …. SO…. in my tiny mind, we could do a set of internal component dimensions and owners can then do anything within that space that will fit. Narsil, Snorkel, Santa Maria, …… TL
You know me so well! lol
Many times I’ve opened a package and taken the light inside straight to the bench for modification, having never seen how it performs in stock trim. It’s the nature of the beast I suppose.
I’m not out, but I have to agree that I thought the goal here was for the light’s size to be somewhat…manageable. It may not be comfortable in my jeans pocket, but I was hoping for at least jacket-pocketable. And if we’re going to the trouble of having a great US shop make these lights from scratch, I think we should have our own design instead of copying a factory light, no matter how good that light is.
Also, while my preference would be for the dual-switch setup with something like Narsil, I can see how that doesn’t really fit the original design goal here. So I can go along with a more simple tail switch only setup in this light if that’s what the group decides.
So that’s my input, for whatever its worth.
EDIT: I don’t think I’ve seen it stated here yet, and it may be too early to tell, but can I ask TexasLumens what sort of MOQ we’d need for you to be able to realistically build this light? Normally with the Chinese outfits its at least several hundred but I’m seeing the same handful of names in this thread over and over, plus there’s the international shipping cost issue, so if there’s only a few dozen of us can this still go forward? Or should we be considering a backup, Chinese-based plan like that LD-2?
Thanks for all the input You’ll. It’s been a lot for me to shift through and analyze. The driver looks like the LD-2 or some slight variant of it. As I said in the past I’ve put a lot of Solarforce lights together for first Responders in my area. I ask them what modes. The most popular is high/low, then low/medium/high. High only, high/strobe, high/low/strobe finish out in much lower numbers. Most are 2-3 modes and a few want strobe. These lights only went to 1000 lumens max. On a 26650 battery I wanted to push the limit to 3000 lumens. This would push the mode count up. 8 amp new territory 3000 lumens, 3 amp old 1000 lumen max is now high, traditional medium and low. I’ve had more than a few want a really low or moonlight for stealth or to preserve night vision. Strobe is still used by a few, myself included. This pushes a 2-3 mode light to 6 modes. Traditional single tail switch operations have a lot more to scroll though. If I had to press a light switch 6 extra times every time I accidentally missed a mode, I’d leave it in the car next to the crappy Stinger. With two switches I can set my mode and forget about that oops. If the E-switch is not practical then it’s probably a 4 mode light; turbo, high, medium and low. Look at most American style lights that have a side switch. Their scalloped on the body then raise at the switch so finding them with gloves can even be done. With the use of much smaller light the switches went to the tails. It’s almost an instinctual place to put the thumb. That why I think the tail switch on/off with a side switch for mode tuning is the way to go.
I can show you at work a desk draw full of good Streamlight flashlights missing the rubber switch cover. Streamlight believes that you should have to completely strip the guts to replace the button cover. One day the Lt. will order the parts. I’m the technical guy at work I’ll end up fixing all of them. The E-switch for the BLF 26650 if possible needs to be durable and water proof. If not then omitted from the design.
I thought I’d put in what we use lights for. The brightest mode for parking lots, fields. Wrap your hand around the bezel as a seal and press it to an overly tinted window and it punches light through. Lower modes for building searches. I like to use a lot more than needed. To keep from blinding myself I shine the light up at an angle letting ceiling bounce light the way. Turn a corner this way and no short distance wall bounce blinding the user. Works on carpet too, tile glares back. Hot spot up, spill forward and you get good results. A few taps to say to the squad car that pulled up to assist “I’m here”. But this causes mode scrolling so it’s modified to hand shaking that give the strobe effect as the beam crosses the car. We stick orange cones to our lights for traffic control, medium only. We stick them on their tail when the powers out, low to medium. You may live in a trouble free grid. Abandoned buildings have no power, offices in an old warehouse are pitch black in the back. These have been turned into transient homes then crime scenes. A tail standing light come in handy. More accidents happen in the rain, we work in the rain. I’ve come home drenched, my lights I build get two days in the pool to check waterproofing. We like to drop wet things and dry too, it must be robust beyond compare. Sometimes we don’t have time for the baton when we it get physical. Lights have been a good substitution for years, on a mag-lite you hold at the head and hit with the tube. Short lights used like kubatons.
Ask yourself can you operate it behind your back. There are at time looking at my light is when I’ll get surprised. Now picture this, it’s a very rare occurrence but it happen. I’ve drawn my weapon in a dark area. Light in one hand pistol in the other. I’m pointing towards a car with a few people in it and currently ordering the driver out. It’s still not enough light for me. One press on the side switch and blink free increase in light.
This is how I came to my desired design parameters. In the past we only had on/off. Modes weren’t needed because on wasn’t bright enough as it was. The XP-G changed all that. Modes and how to change them come in many flavors now. This light needs to be as technically complicated as the one you loan Granddad. Most first Responders have too much complicated equipment as it is. Thank Glaston Glock for taking the safety of the sides of pistols. I can tell a few stories of officer qualifying trying to bend triggers cause the safety was still on.
Crap, it took me a lot longer than it should to realize that LD2 is the model of the driver and not the big courui light itself. I guess I deserve that. Sorry, excuse my idiocy.
The e-switch with a rubber boot, would be weather tight, just not water proof. It would be an asset if you could go with a clear boot and lighted E-switch, for a locator in case dropped and to tell you it’s armed, so you can shut it off at the tail cap?
The only point in that narrative that made me ponder was the statement about gun in hand ordering driver out of the car and needing to bump power on the light. At that point, from everything I know, modified Weaver with tactical grip on the light is a fair standard, side e-switch would be inaccessible.
Compromise is the negotiator, best of several worlds and no one can agree on what that is. It’d be interesting to have 1000 officers, 1000 firefighters and 1000 EMS reply to a questionaire on building this light, then take the law of averages to get the “best” elements. Every time we ask, for a group buy or a custom job, we get so many answers it’s difficult to come up with a suitable end line.
There are several points in your narrative and tech list that rule out a side switch completely, as there are several points that speak very favorably for ToyKeepers Bistro UI.
Agreed, lets go forward, I got one of a few e-mails back. I asked a few people driver experts about drivers. Should be known soon, of those asked one already replied LD-2 and LD-2M. I’ve read about the LD-2 and it seems like a great driver. LD-2M absolutely no idea just learned of it today. LD-2 17mm’s, LD-2M 25mm’s should have enough clearance for both. Dale, do you know of any better than these, and what is the LD-2M?
My age might be showing in that sentence. I grew up using the Chapman then later the Ayoob technique. A few years later SureFire made the Harries technique popular. Now the new FBI method favors side switches again. Very best method is the dedicated weapon light mounted to the weapon. It frees a hand. If your a close range point shooter, the hot spot is your sight picture.
As a photographer now, I use my old shooter’s stances to stabilize the camera, some people do a bit of a double take, but hey man, if it works it works! lol I was never a police officer, but I shot competition against a lot of officers and worked with a gunsmith that shot competition and skeet, so I learned some proper techniques back in the 80’s. Couple of lifetimes ago. Been shooting long guns since I was 5. From M1-A’s to old Russian military rifles with sights that would indicate a mile. Steel butt plates, bruised shoulders, all of it.
As far as I can tell, the LD-2M has the higher amperage set-up already done. The LD-2 is a 6A driver, the LD-2M has the bumped resistor to go up to 9A or 12A. That’s the way I read it. I got LD-2’s and the sets of resistors and was upgrading them as needed. I had forgotten I had em though, I’ve had those here for months and months. My problem with them is a limited UI as compared to Bistro. ToyKeeper really hit that one out of the park and I like it a lot, also used the A6 driver for over 100 builds.
25mm should easily fit, yes, since we’re using a 26650 cell. I tend to use all 17mm, but that’s just me, I don’t even have a problem piggybacking a 10mm into a big light as it does the same job in the end for me, so capabilities aren’t really in question. The 17mm would be widely universal should something need changing down the road, where the 25mm or 22mm might be more challenging to find. It’s easier to use a step down adapter though than it is to open up the driver bay. Something to think about.
Richard has developed a re-flow pick&plug system and as such, he’s producing factory grade drivers with upgrades and revisions that are surely worthy, the ATTiny25 with FET+1 is an awesome driver and should be given serious consideration, Richard also does multiple sizes, so I would say he’d be the go to guy for the driver. He can flash guppydrv or Bistro or make new firmware as called for, he’s going to be very helpful as always and can surely set us up with a best case driver for this light, whatever form it finally takes.
I too would agree Tail cap only, just like 90%of my Lights! :+1: Edit: But with the tail cap being able to set levels and e-switch, the tail cap could be used in an emergency and the e-switch for search and rescue???
17mm, check out Kawiboy’s links…
