Nice discussion going here…. and now I’m going to go drool on the pics in the op again. Can’t wait till you guys get the samples…… more pics, more test results, more info.
Someday soon I will build my first triple. Will it be one of these or one of my a6’. Hmmmmm….
Thank you organizers for your work!
Channeling a bit of Gene Rodenberry?
When I grow up I wanna be a minion. Well, I never grew up but I got the minion part down pat.
I can tell you a few milestones I’d still like to see achieved. First, what about a single cell XHP-50 thrower? The boost driver for higher Vf LEDs has been done, but not BLF’d yet for maximum output and UI utopia. The reflector situation for the quad die hasn’t yet been maximized as far as getting the most throw without a donut hole. At least some people have been working on it, but it hasn’t been perfected for the masses yet. I’d like to see for the X6-SE v3, the whole light up-sized to 26650 cell size, with a similarly enlarged reflector, a single-cell driver to 6-volt XHP-50 with excellent throw and no donut hole! I’d like to see pricing under $40USD for one in HA III black anodized Aluminum. Maybe, make a three-piece serial-matched set with the X6 and X5, for under $65 or so?
For me it's just that I want to get rid of (most of) my lights. Although this has been the most interesting set of lights for that price, ever.
Amen, and please don’t rush with the decision on the MCU (Attiny 25+).
The BLF X6-SE v2 & X5 should be once in a livetime lights - they already look like that, but they also need an adequate UI (MCU/driver).
We (BLF) should be striving for the best and the Attiny25/45/85 FW Development Thread already shows that this is the route to go.
Especially in SS/Cu lights without mechanical lockout (no anodized caps/threads) I really would like to see security features like thermal protection or an electronic (UI based) lockout switch to prevent unwanted accidents.
Just make it awesome!
Too late for this light. Let’s try to get that into the v3 though for sure! :bigsmile:
Please put me down for one set of the SS/Cu in CW. Thanks!
Is it too late, really? Might have missed something. JM eluded to some other feature way back, and I was guessing it was a 25 upgrade, but dont' think I saw anything on what the other new feature was (not the lit tailcap). It could theoretically be simple to upgrade a 13A to a 25, and TK's firmware looks pretty much done and tested now.
Well, let me re-phrase that. AFAIK, pending the approval of the latest samples, there are no more changes to be made in this light. So, if those things have not already been introduced, then yes, it is too late now to do that. If krono et al have already implemented those features, then it won’t disappoint me at all! :bigsmile:
David, can you give the definition of a thrower? Typically, to the best of my knowledge, it’s a small die surface paired with a large reflector to get maximum downrange illumination. The XHP-50 is a quad die emitter, oops, disqualified as a thrower. For this much surface area the diameter of the reflector would have to be enormous to get throw, unless I’ve missed some time in that class…
Samples should be out, we should see some important news soon.
Well, you should know the definition of a thrower better than me. :bigsmile: But, my understanding was that the spot brightness of the die was the biggest factor in determining throw. The ratio of lumens to the overall die size basically defines that brightness number and is expressed as cd/mm² . Logically, if there is a perfect focal point for the reflector, the more light you can get at or near that focal point, the better your throw will be. The cross in the middle of the XHP-50 is a huge problem in that case, because it is right in the middle of the focal point of the reflector. But, that doesn’t disqualify it completely from a thrower light because…
Already for decades, reflectors have been designed with an imperfect focus to accommodate incans. Because incandescent bulbs don’t make a single point of light either, the reflectors are designed to collect as much of the light as possible into the beam. And, we’ve seen reflectors that are capable of focusing the XHP-50 into a good beam profile, like the Lum 5-90. I don’t think it is the size of that particular reflector that does the trick, but the shape of it. The Lum 5-90 was made for a much larger die than what the XHP-50 has, so I’m sure the same design could be scaled down and still work well with the XHP-50 in a 26650-sized X6-shaped flashlight.
If Wavien can make a light recycling collar that is suitable for multi-die RGBW LEDs, then I’m sure some smart person can figure out the best shape to make flashlight reflectors for quad-die XHP LEDs.
Edit: Illumination Machines the makers of the Lum 5-90, already make a diamond faceted reflector for a quad-die emitter. Here is the listing:
I know 20 cd/lumen isn’t anything to write home about, but just showing that someone is already working on multi-die LED reflectors. They also have a listing for an XML reflector with 4 degree beam profile and 55 cd/lm performance. It’s faceted as well, and might work for the XHP-50, but I don’t know if it does or not. If so, a mere 3000 lumen output could result in something like 165 kcd. Isn’t that a thrower?
Now I know I’m still sick and all that, and you made it sound real feasible with all the fansified gibberish, but even the LUM 5-90 can’t make an XHP-70/50 throw. The massive 6” Ledil Seanna does a fair job, but a tiny XP-E2 in the same Seanna will blow the doors off everything else when it comes to throw, relatively speaking.
So again, it comes down to how much surface area the die has and the relative size of the collaborating reflector. If you don’t mind going large, then it could probably be done. If you want throw from a 39mm diameter ref/optic, well, I don’t see that happening with the XHP series. I disassembled my beloved Olight M2X-UT Javelot and built it around the 12V XHP-35. It was a nice amount of lumens, but the loss of throw was too much to bear so I tore it apart and rebuilt it back to the smallish thrower I dearly love. The XHP-35 is in the mess on my modding table somewhere…
I too fell for the promise of the XHP series. I too have spent monies on them, only to be disappointed in the end for the most part. I DO like the 96CRI XHP-70 paired with the LUM 5-90 in my SR-90 Intimidator, it’s a balance of output, beam profile, and color that I just really do like a lot. Shame we have to diffuse the “+” and lose throw potential, but it is what it is. In a light the size of these X6’s, flood is about all you can expect.
Edit: Seeing your last post up above, in a world of throwers that hit 300Kcd- 800Kcd, I’m afraid 165Kcd is just a pocket torch. How much spill does it have to go with that center intensity? Too much. The area out in front of you is so illuminated that you can’t really see downrange. A good thrower concentrates the beam into a tube of light that shows you the distant target plainly while leaving everything else only faintly illuminated, so as not to be distracting. And that’s really what makes for a good thrower. Side by side, a light making 665Kcd and throwing over a mile will make the XHP-70/50/35 look really bad and out of place. This is where I had my SR-90, I gave that up for the broader and cleaner color. Working on an 843+Kcd light, serious throw for serious coyote spotting.
As in all things, this is just how I see it and everyone else is entitled to their own point of view, no matter how wrong they are.
Count me in for a SS/Cu NW.
Well then, it seems very clear that you should get it, then get rid of your other lights.
So where is the triple XHP50 version of this light?
I am in for 1 SS/CU CW
In times past, with the ever increasing demand for more output, where is the 4 die Cree MC-E now; Crees answer for more output at that time?
Totally eclipsed and rendered obsolete by the introduction of the Cree XM-L.
I’m guessing that history really does repeat itself here, because now we see the 4 die XH-P’s (XH-P50 = four XP-G dies - XP-H 70 = four XM-L dies. - What do you think might be next?… It really depends on whether or not Cree thinks that there is a market (Money( for a more ’intense/focused discrete emitter. - A step in that direction was made by them with the introduction of the XP-L HI, so I am at least hopeful that they will continue to investigate these realms. - I truly believe that we are just beginning.
These XH-P emitters (as Dale says), are NOT for more Throw, but rather, for more ‘light’ (lumens), and they certainly do a great job at that!
But always remember that if you want concentrated focus, then you need to go ‘small’ with the emitter, and/or Large with the reflector, and that right there is one strike against the 4 die format. - Even just one strike places you in a real disadvantage, unless you like 4” bezels:
) And even then you will lose.
I’m in the same boat as everyone else here and I don’t like these constraints one bit… I also don’t like the fact that I can’t jump 100’ high, and run 100 miles per hour.
I have constraints:-(
Flashlights are constrained too - But that does not mean that improvements can’t be made; I mean, Come-on!
It just that you need to be always mindful of our given ‘laws’ (physics), or you will be ‘barking up the wrong tree’.
Thanks for ‘listening’,
PS - I’m going to take my X6 and X5 and enjoy them to the fullest, because you just are not gonna get any better than this - Right Now.
I live in the ‘Now’, as this is really the only life that we have. - Yesterday is but a memory, and tomorrow is what you yourself make of it - Starting right Now!.
There is no electronic switch. It has a physical power-cutting switch like other reverse clicky lights. These do not tend to turn on by accident.