Why they stopped making the Pro-1 I’ll never know. The lumen race may be responsible.
I’m thinking of modding a C8 with a de-domed XP-G2, or modding a HD2010 with de-domed XP-G2 and an aspheric lens. Either one would be a relatively inexpensive small thrower. I haven’t really done any modding yet though, so it’s a bit hard to get started.
I figure the C8 could probably get ~75k cd and the HD2010 could probably reach ~150k cd with some relatively simple mods… and it’d be nice to have something small (ish) with ~550m to ~800m of throw instead of the ~350m I get from my current C8. Especially if it’s aspheric, so the spill won’t blind me. Plus, aspherics are like light sabers. Light sabers are cool.
It was fun having a TK75 for a while, but it was just too big. A C8 is a nice size though, and I think I could probably deal with something as large as a HD2010. An OSTS Night Master would be about right, but it’s expensive and I wouldn’t get the fun of modding something myself.
My favorite light for walking my fields late at night is a Tmart HD2010, has good spill and throws plenty. Even in stock form its a good light. So far mine has been durable. I have the unbranded black one and its direct drive. I like the feel of it, its a nice size tube without being too large.
The c8 should net closer to 130 kcd with the xpg2, but depends how hard you want to drive it.
Cnqualitygoods sells a good xpg r5 reflector that fit xpe2 and xpg2 perfect
Chris
I think there’s something to be said for a throwy light that also outputs a wide and usable amount of light in the spill. Maybe that’s why the throwers with shallower reflectors are becoming more popular. Not as useful as a really dedicated thrower in the tasks you mention but maybe a better all round choice?
“Nothing else even comes close and nothing that will be invented in the near future will match it.”
There’s nothing magical about that light that couldn’t be produced again I’m sure! 
The more I learn about parabolic flashlight reflectors the less complicated the whole equation seems. Seems to me the key to the MPP1 reflector design is it’s extra depth, combined with a relatively large O/D and a small emitter.
I believe all the other lights you mention are large XML sized emitters in equal or smaller diameter reflectors and probably none have the ratio of depth to width that the mpp1 has.
But if you want good throw without too much spill, have you tried an xp-g2 or xpe2 in a hd2010 reflector?. Would be interesting to see a side by side with an MPP1 to see what difference the deeper reflector on the mpp1 really makes.
I’ve also noticed that visually the relationship between the brightness of the spill compared with the hotspot isn’t strictly linear, for example if I have my hd2010 on high the spill is incredibly bright and distracting from the hotspot. But turned down to medium or low the spill basically vanishes while the hotspot is still rather bright and useful.
This may also be a factor in why a low lumen thrower like the mpp1 appears to have less spill and a more useful hotspot.
Of course these are very different lights and the reflector/emitter equation will probably still make the biggest difference but it might be something to consider.
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For me the ideal thrower combination would be something that has a decently bright but not distracting spill that projects out to almost 180 degrees all round (so I can see if I’m stepping in something I shouldn’t be without aiming the light down to the ground) and a well defined hotspot that can reach out to spot things at range. I don’t particularly like the tunnel vision effect of deeper reflectors with narrow spill beams too much. I prefer the Courui XML2 “bighead” over the hd2010 for walking around because its larger and possibly slightly shallower ratio reflector projects a tighter hotspot while also having a wider spill beam.
I have a normal C8 with the 42x31 reflector, and a nonstandard one with a 42x41 reflector, both using dedomed XML2. The center spot is the same, they throw the same, work the same outdoors, only difference is the deeper reflector constricts the outer spill. It doesn't put any more of the light into the center spot.
Did you make a C8 with 130 kcd? If so, what parts did you use? Host, pill, driver, etc… I’d love to make one, and the reflector tip is helpful, but I’d like to hear what other parts are known to be good too.
I’m not surprised that there’s hardly any visible difference between the two, but that statement in itself isn’t strictly true.
A deeper reflector catches more of the light emitted from an led because it covers more of the forward emission angle from the led’s point of view. The result of that is an apparent constricting of the spill beam because light that would be missing a shallower reflector entirely is now being captured. And because it’s a parabolic reflector that captured light has to be projected forward into the hotspot/corona.
The difference in throw between a deeper and a shallower reflector is not going to be as big as if you scale up the reflector in relation to the emitter size since that (reduces the projected size of the hotspot) but it’s still going to be a factor.
If we compare two large head throwers like the Courui Bighead 3x18650 and something like the Thrunite TN31.
Both have reflectors around 70mm in diameter but the TN reflector is almost 20mm deeper with a ratio of depth to width much closer to 1:1. (Big head is 70mmx47mm vs TN31 69mmx64mm)
I know which one I’m going to bet on to have the ultimate advantage in hotspot intensity but also know that the other is going to have a wider more usable spill beam to go along with the tight hotspot.
The center spots are the same size, the total area of the outer spill is smaller with the deeper reflector. If the reduction in outer spill is evenly distributed over a smaller area then some of it will end up over the center spot as well, but it's a very minor difference. It's not nearly the same as a reflector with different geometry that makes a tighter, smaller center spot and puts less of the light into the outer spill.
C8 addicts thread 
Chris
But that’s what I’m getting at, you’re not “projecting” a spill beam with a parabolic reflector, the spill is simply made up of light that is exiting the emitter and not hitting any part of the reflector on it’s way. It’s absolutely the same intensity (minus lens transmission losses) as the light you’d see coming off the bare emitter with no reflector in place e.g a mule light. And it’s intensity is solely dependent on the emitter’s emission profile.
The difference that the depth of the reflector makes and how it looks to constrict the angle of the spill beam is by “blocking” more of this unhindered light. And because the thing blocking that light is a parabolic reflector it has to project that light forward along with all the other light from deeper inside the reflector to form the central hotspot and corona.
And provided we’re still talking about parabolic reflectors I don’t think there is such a thing as different geometry, all you can do is scale up or down a parabola and decide how much to cut off on the front end to get to your desired O/D and distance to focal point. And if we’re talking about a fixed O/D application like a flashlight then to get a reflector that has more depth (more of the parabolic shape is used) we have to scale down the parabolic shape overall. If you look at a Tn31 reflector which has the same O/D of the bighead light but far greater depth, you’ll also see that the flat part at the base of the reflector (focus plane?) is far narrower. So the parabola from which the reflector section is cut is smaller overall. This should also be the case when comparing your two C8 reflectors.
I don’t know how much impact these things have on an already fairly small reflector like the C8 but it’s interesting stuff.
Clearly Thrunite decided to go with a deep 1:1 ratio reflector in their flagship thrower when they could have also gone with a reflector cut using a larger parabola that would have been shorter just like the one in the Courui “Bighead”.
I’m really fascinated by Buckets thread because so much interesting information is being brought forward regarding parabolic reflectors. Much more interesting and less mysterious than I always thought.
That is all.
I don’t care how the light gets there, which one is better, deeper or shallow?
No simple answer I’m afraid as with everything else.
Understanding the voodoo will help you make an educated decision for yourself.
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But you can probably sum it up like this, for a given emitter size and reflector diameter. So let’s take two XML lights with the same head diameter.
If you want absolute maximum hotspot intensity (throw) and are ok with a narrow spill beam then a deep reflector is what you want. Seems what we call “deep” reflectors tend to have a ratio of width to depth that’s close to 1:1.
If on the other hand you prefer to have a fairly wide spill beam and are ok with sacrificing some hotspot intensity to have a more useful walking-round light then a shallower reflector will probably suit you better. I certainly prefer this kind of light myself.
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As I said above my personal preference and ideal throw to spill combination is something like those old halogen lanterns with massive but very shallow parabolic reflectors, the ones that look kinda like a dish. They have a very tight hotspot but also a very, very wide and useful spill that projects out at what seems like 150-180degrees or something close to that. There is no doubt this light setup is not going to give you the ultimate throw performance because so much of the light is missing the reflector completely but it is a very useful combination.
Unfortunately that kind of reflector setup is only possible with a halogen bulb since the light source is omni directional rather than the 120degree directional leds we have now. That allows designers to place the light source and the focal point of the reflector very far forward almost at the rim of the reflector itself and get this combination of throw and spill.
What I’m not sure about is how this scaling of the parabola affects the projection of the hotspot. I wouldn’t think overall size is massively affected since the widest part of the relfector is still the same size in relation to the emitter die size. But since you’re using more of a smaller parabola and less of a larger parabola surely that should affect something about the projected hotspot…maybe the definition/focus of the corona? I need to look into this more, it’s quite fascinating.
the problem here now is, many of us would pick a light we like and MAKE THE DAMMED THING THROW, I’m not sure this is what the op wants to do. And fifty bucks isnt much, even modding it constricts you to a zyt08 of hd2010, my personal choice busts the budget (convoy l2, dedomed xp-g2 on a noctigon and 5a lck driver) so it depends on both tge budget flexibility and tge op’s ability to shove something different in a host and make it work.
it also depends on their happiness with either very short run time at full output or using series cells. imo its easier to get high output and useful runtime out of two or more cells, and you dont need special high outout high drain cells.
if you’ve not played with much snd live in the states. a defiant 3c super thrower is a good place to start with plenty of mod options.
if you can’t mod and 50 or so kcd wont do it, your probably going to have to up your budget.
What CD are you getting the L2 up to gords?
Chris
This one is still for sale
An amazing light!
200ish kcd off my cheapo meter, how that relates to anything else? who knows, it amuses me and is still usefull in terms of beam and runtime. thats all that really matters to me.
yea, i already accepted the fact that i will either have to up the budget or to “mod” and to tell you the truth i am warming up for “modding”…
modding wise.
it depends on your skills and what you want. many like xm-l/l2 based throwers, I’m in a minority as I prefer xp - g/g2 based throwers, others want an aspheric xp-e/e2/xre laser beam with no spill.
the answer is, buy a zy-t08/hd2010 AND a jacobs a60 AND the aspheric wolf eyes clone (someone will supply the model here, I think its a t20 ultrafire) I think you’ll just about tip fifty dollars.
from there, see which beam profile suits and then start modding.
personally I hate aspherics, so I wouldn’t consider one, others love them and get great results, I’m just old and feel a beam should be round and cone shaped.
I also like usefull spill, if I was on a boat, my needs would change, foggy/pollen clouded atmosphere, it’d change again, for my use, a hard driven copper mounted dedomed xpg2 in a big reflector works well, for you, it might not.
Also, dedoming is easiest to succeed with petrol, if your petrol is poor quality or hard to get, dedoming becomes much more of sn artform.