Wurkkos TS25 pre-production unit review and suggestion + some measurments from a production unit

LED Flashlights – General Info 21700 Flashlights
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That is correct at least for this pre-production TS25. The button LED does not turn on when the main led is off. So, it cannot be used to locate the light in the dark.

Other Wurkkos light with button led such as TS21 or TS30S behave differently. Those lights can be configured so that the button light turns on when main leds are turned off. But those lights do not have RGB aux leds.

As far as I know, RGB aux and button leds output levels are linked in the lights that have both. So, I don’t think you can turn off the RGB aux leds and turn on the button leds. This type of setting makes sense in a way because RGB aux leds only turn on when the main leds are off. The logic is like this. Why get lights with RGB aux leds if you are not going to use them?

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Usually the hardware allows to control RGB aux and switch LED individually. There are some forks of Anduril which have added extra configuration options to set each individually.

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Thanks for this review, and I agree with @Limsup. I wish aux led current was something that was easier to find. It’s complicated because with Anduril 2, the aux can be bright, dim, flashing, and some rainbow rolling combo. But not only does brightness level change current consumption, but also the color. When I measured Hank’s D4K, pure blue and green aux consume like 1/5th the current as certain combinations like orange (red+green). And the pure red color had had much higher current than pure blue or pure green.

And there’s also the issue with LVP not being active for certain modes. For D4K, LVP works for all aux modes (high, low, blinking). But on the Wurkkos TS21 for example, LVP only works for blinking, and high and low aux levels have no LVP protection. It’s still important to know that some lights have a safe aux mode and the other aux modes will over discharge your battery. Granted, the difference between aux off idle current (75uA) on aux on low (197uA) isn’t huge in the TS21, but it’s still notable. So continuously displaying the battery voltage via aux color is an awesome feature and very Anduril thing to do, the current consumption to do that may not be practical. And I hate impractical features that make the light more expensive.

As much as I like aux on the D4K, it’s really only useful on low. High consumes too much current to be practical, and it’s really only useful for showing off your pretty lights on some forums.

So it’s been a couple months and the TS25 is available now. Any word on if these issues have been solved? The low aux level setting issue, LVP protection for aux modes, and programming pads? Anyone received a non-pre-production unit?

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I recently ordered and received the production model. Here are some of my observations.

Standby currents:
aux off: 0.07~0.10mA
aux low: ~0.46mA
aux high: ~12.17mA (Purple 10.42mA, Blue 4.18mA, Cyan 6.27mA, Green 2.55mA, Yellow 9.20mA, Red 7.20mA)

The power consumption on high aux is halved compared to the pre-production unit. However, the RGB aux is still very bright. TS25 on high aux measured about three times brighter than D4V2 on high. (TS25 blue on high 835lux vs. D4V2 blue on high 265lux)

The aux on low is very dim and very hard to notice. You can notice the aux led light if you see the TIR from the side, but if you look at the light from the front they are almost impossible to notice even in the dark.

The button led does not turn on when you turn on the light. In my pre-production model, the button led turned green or red depending on battery level, but it does not do that any more in the production unit. It only turns on when being charged or acting as a power bank.

The power bank quality is decent. The output is fairly well regulated. I don’t see high voltage ripple that you can see on cheaply made power banks.

TS25 power bank can supply 3A at 5V. You have to use quality cables to achieve this output. When USB-C cables are plugged in, it correctly detects the attached device and supplies power.

Peak to peak voltage difference is measured around 60mV. On top of the notch power banks I own, the numbers are kept as low as 30mV. My Samsung OEM 25W USB-C adapter was measured 100mV and 10W USB adapter was measured 30mV. So, I would say TS25 power bank is on par with OEM power adapter.

I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on safety features of the TS25’s power bank feature. I am a little reluctant to use a power bank if it is not made by reputable brand as I had a catastrophic experience with bad power banks. But so far, it passes the output stability test for me.

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1. Power output is low?

I think the output is not low for a 5V source. In my testing with a variable electronic load, TS25 can maintain 5V at 3A (15W) no problem.

However, you need short and high quality cable (low resistance) for a high current applications to work correctly. In my experience, “100W” cable does not mean low resistance. I have seen many cables that has resistance close to 200mOhm but is rated for 100W. If a cable’s resistance is 200mOhm, then 5V 2A source will be seen as 4.6V 2A, in which case the other end of cable (in your case your phone) will ask for less power.

2. Crazy behavior on C to C cable?

TS25 can be both a source and destination of power when C to C cable is used. I personally did not have any issue when trying to charge TS25 using my charger with C output. If I want to be extra careful, I would connect a C to C cable to power source first and then plug it to TS25. This will make sure that TS25 will not behave as a power source.

I have seen other lights with usb-c ports that only charges with usb-C to usb-A, but TS25 is not one of them. I can charge my TS25 using my USB-C chargers as I would charge a properly made usb-c devices.

Is the cable you used a proper usb-C cable? I have seen some subpar c to c cables that do not meet official requirements.

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Thanks for the info i will have to experiment more when i have a mo.

Makes no difference which order i plug the cable in and the voltage readout goes to zero.

I have a wicked 7mm thick Scosche StrikeLINE 10gbps C2C but that makes no difference to shorting my baseus charger.

I just tried it on a 65w usb pd charger and it works fine. My phone wont go over 2a on any 5v source so thats ok.

Still impressed with the item and with a samsung 50S it lasts on my two hour walks easily.

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I have three USB-C chargers, Samsung 25W, 65W Lenovo laptop charger, and Baseus 100W GaN3. TS25 charges no problem on all of my usb-c chargers. Many of high quality cables I have do not fit TS25 because the slot only accept slim cables, but ones that fit work fine. Luckily (?), I did not observe any weird behaviors.

For high speed charging to take place, the one that is requesting power has to ask for higher current at the same time the source should have the ability supply that power. TS25 only supplies 5V power, which is not a common power source for modern high speed charging devices. (They usually use higher voltage for higher wattage output.) My phone happens to ask for 3A at 5V, but I can understand that other devices may not ask that much power at 5V. In sum, 3A at 5V only works on some devices (even this depends on the battery charge status of my phone).

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A baseus car charger let my phone draw over 6 amps at 9v and overheated one of my phones charge ports once. Usb has become so complex i do think these sort of compatibility issues will arise occasionally.

Thanks again for the info, ill just use my other chargers :slight_smile:

*I got 2.97a at 4.67v charging a powerbank and you can get it to reverse by the order you plug it in, so thats all good

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That is quite a drop in voltage. On my best cable (the one you see in my photos), I could achieve 4.99V when I set the load to 3.00A. The cable does not have a brand as far as I know, but it has lowest resistance (therefore lowest voltage drop) among several cables I have. The fact that it is rated USB4.0 Gen3 40Gbps and that it is SHORT should have helped. The cable is 13.5cm and the connectors are gold plated. On the 1m C-C cable that were bundled with my Samsung phone, the voltage is 4.71V at 3.00A load by the way.

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I did actually get my phone to take 3amps at 5v from a car charger fine with the same cable. But the ts25 only gives 8 watts. My phone has 65w charging so have a few quality branded cables under 2ft.

Ah well its only for emergencies. As long as i can call someone if my mate flips a car again and both our phones are dead again grr haha.

I cleaned the ports a little but didnt help.

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I disassembled my defective TS25. The button randomly registered and recently it did not click any more. It seemed almost useless, so I decided to tear it down. Wurkkos TS21 tear down thread by Tom E Wurkkos TS21 tear down was very helpful.

Here are a couple of things I learned something during the teardown.

1. Your flashlight is very likely to be damaged during tear down.

I knew from Tom E’s thread that the light could get damaged during the process, but his method of tearing down the light did not work well with my TS25. First of all, using a solder pick to push down the glued PCB was very hard because of the amount of wires in the hole. I decided to push down the middle pcb, but I broke the botton led and the switch during the process.

2. There were only very small amount of thermal paste.

My TS25 got warm quickly on turbo, so heat dissipation may have not been an issue. However, I was surprised at how little amount of thermal pasted was used. I think the amount of force that were put pressing down the MCPCB must have helped dissipate heat. If you ever unscrewed the bezel, I would recommend you screw back the bezel all the way and line up the “Hot Caution” sign with the switch.

3. RGB AUX lights are not meant to be desoldered and resoldered again using the stock wires.

It is because it is impossible to thread back the small and short wires from the PCB. Even if I succeed, I don’t think I can solder those small wires to tight spaces. Maybe I could solder each of the small wires with another wire and put it through the main hole and desolder those wires after the assembly. My PCB were already damaged beyond repair during the teardown, so I didn’t bother trying.

4. You need soldering iron with decent power to desolder the main leads.

I recently purchased TS101 soldering iron. It can be powered by USB-C PD power source and with it the iron can use up to 45W. However, it required significant amount of time until I could remove the main wires. This is because the main leads are connected to copper MCPCB. When I tried to desolder the main leads, the light got warm to the touch.

5. The button can damage the switch if pressed hard enough.

If you press the button, button can push down on the switch with a lot of force. Pushing the button will push down the switch but it can be pushed down further and possibly crush the switch. The button travel is limited, but the limit does not prevent damaging the switch.

On my working TS25, the button stops where the button is flush with the body. However, the button can be depressed further into the body therefore force you put on the button will be transmitted on the switch.

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I had a fleck of dirt in my lens so popped the top off. I was pleased to see a little excess paste was showing on the TIR’s leg holes. mine definitely had more than this one. Maybe thats why someone had one led blow if they arnt at least putting a blob under each led.

I did feel I could get an extra 8th of a turn tighter on the two screws.

Good to know about the button, ill be careful with mine.

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Sorry to hear your button did not click anymore, and that the disassembly was destructive. Thanks for the warning that pressing the switch button too hard and too deep puts excess pressure on the internal switch.

I have the preproduction TS25 also. It has seen very little use, but the button does work fine.

Because the Aux have only one brightness, I usually just store the light on top of my refrigerator with Aux Off.

Yesterday I planned to go for an evening tailgating party, apres ski. I decided to bring the TS25, so I could use the Red Aux, on constantly, (I dont like blinking) to mark the tailgate.

I selected the Red Aux, charged up the battery to full, and then rather than worry about parasitic drain or switching the Aux off, I just did Physical Lockout. It worked great!

I actually like the simplicity of advancing Aux colors using 7C. And the charge indicator lights worked properly. Even the voltage indicator on the switch when first turned on, worked fine.

So I kind of like the Prototype TS25. It did what I wanted at the time. The only thing it will not do, is keep the Aux On for long periods when not in use. I dont mind. I dont need the Aux to be on for me to locate the light, I used one of my other flashlights to look around in my pack to find the TS25.

So overall, my TS25 preproduction model is useful for a few hours of Aux light use. It has earned a place in my car camping kit.

FWIW, I also have the TS25 Production model, and have it set up the same way, bright red Aux constant On, and head unscrewed half a turn for physical lockout.

The main difference is that the Production model has a dim Aux mode, but imo it is not very useful, as that mode is so dim as to be almost invisible… I think the Bright Aux mode is more useful, when used as a tailgate marker for a few hours…

imho, none of the aux options, of either model, is useful for leaving on 24/7 for months at a time…

but the TS25 has other benefits, it works great as a floody light for indoor distances, and has some really great High CRI main LEDs… the aux lights are just for short term entertainment, not location markers.

For a location marker, the TS25 has the Anduril 2 Beacon option (if you dont mind blinking lights), which will flash the main LEDs every few seconds, depending how the user chooses to set the timing.

the beacon uses the last used brightness of the main LEDs, or the memorized output.

To turn on beacon from off, do 3C (battery check), then 2C (thermal check), then 2C (Beacon). Buy default the beacon flashes about once every second. This can be changed with 1H, which adds time as you hold the button.

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Does the production version have flashing pads? Are they the same 3 pad layout as found in the Sp10 PRO and other recent lights?

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yes and yes

top is Production model:

I have not tested the flashing pads. The light ships w the July 25, 2022 hex file, there is an 8/17 update (I do not know what it changes). afaict, the July 25th hex already implements the lower lows, on my meter 0.02 lumens.

hex files here

description of changes here:
https://code.launchpad.net/~gabe/flashlight-firmware/anduril2
it mentions a Nov 14 update, but I see no new hex in his repo.

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Thanks!

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My button was defective from the factory. The button clicked but worked only randomly unless I pressed really hard. As I tried to use the light (and set up my Anduril UI), the button required more force for it to work and eventually the button was no longer working. I understood what happened after opening up the light. I am guessing the switch was initially damaged and I damaged it more by pressing it hard.

I too have production model. The button on the production model works fine. It is a little mushy and requires more force (the actuation force is about 750gf) than my other Anduril lights, but they are perfectly acceptable.

I agree the aux on low is too dim to be useful. The aux leds on high is still very bright, but they consume about half of pre-production model. I am also sad that the battery indicator function was gone. I personally do not have much use for that feature as I set my aux to display voltage, but I can see other people may use it.

I think everyone has different uses for RGB leds. All my Anduril UI lights with RGB aux are set on high and are configured to display voltage. I see it as an indication and a warning that the powerful light is ready. When I use the aux leds this way, I physically lockout the lights by turning the head. Setting the aux leds to switching are nice to look at on the desk. If you place it where you notice it all the time, then charging the battery every few weeks is not a big deal.

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I noticed something unusual on the positive terminal of the battery that were installed in my production TS25. It is Wurkkos 5000mAh battery. The positive terminal of the battery has developed a dent and is now recessed. I think this is caused in part because of the small terminal on the pcb. (My TS30S has large and flat positive terminal)

More importantly, the tail spring of the production model is strong and long that it places significant amount of force on the positive terminal when the head is fully screwed in. In the production model, the battery sticks out by 5mm when the head is removed and tail cap is fully screwed in.

The production model spring is 1.2mm thick. So, significant amount of force may have been applied on the positive terminal when the head is screwed in.

On the other hand, the spring in the pre-production model is thinner. It is measured 1.0mm.

Also, the battery sticks out less. It is measured around 3mm when pre-production tail cap is installed. This is 2mm shorter than the production tail cap.

Weaker and shorter spring may have reliability issue that if bumped (or shaken) hard enough the light can be turned off.

However, strong and long spring can damage the positive terminal of the battery. Also, I think it can put significant stress on the pcb and the threads.

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I wonder what brand battery is under there. I got the new lg m50lt and it folded in like paper in a fireflies e07.

I have a Samsung 50s in my wurkkos and although I can see its getting some nice deep scratches it hasnt bent at all.

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The battery in the photos is the one that came with the TS25 from Wurkkos. It is marked as 5000mAh. It suspect it is a rewrap of Chinese battery, but I don’t know which brand.

I am a little surprised that Fireflies E07 can also dent the battery because E07’s positive terminal is a spring. I guess with enough force some batteries positive terminal can bend.