Test / Review: (OLD) Panasonic NCR 18650A 3100mAh batteries $11.96 Protected and $9.97 Unprotected (OLD)

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ri chevy
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I agree.  It is not personal against Mr. Wang, just business.  If there is an issue with a battery not performing as advertised by a company, then it needs to be addressed and fixed by the company selling the item.  Then it needs to be made right by the people affected by the non-performing items.  Either a refund, or have new batteries sent out when the issue is fixed.  Definitely not Mr. Wang's fault, and nothing personal directed at him.  But it is a business issue that needs to be corrected.  Then Mr. Wang needs to take the PCB issue up with whomever he had produce or make up the batteries and PCB's if they were not up to his specifications.  We the customer should not take the brunt end of the issue or loss.  Customer is always first.  That makes for good business!

fnsooner
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Wow, I just found this thread. I haven't been able to read all the posts but I get the jist, "these cells kinda suck". 

I bought two of them and the pretty blue matched my SolarForce blue L2P so well that I couldn't resist. Both of the cells I bought tripped the pcb within a couple of seconds of trying to power a UF XM-L drop-in. 

They seem to be working in my Zebralight SC600 though. The only other cells I have that can't handle my direct drive xml lights are the Trustfire grays. Disapointing, considering what I thought I was buying.

 
HKJ
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fnsooner wrote:
I haven't been able to read all the posts but I get the jist, "these cells kinda suck".

I am testing on them and does not agree with that, they are top quality cell (How can they be otherwise with the Panasonic cell inside), but the current protection is a bit low.

This means that the works perfectly with lights that has a single XP-E or XP-G led, but has trouble driving a XM-L led at full power.

The low current limit is, of course, a serious problem for people that bought them for use in a XM-L light.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

fnsooner
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I did say "kinda". Laughing

Thanks for testing these cells. It is good to know that these will perform reliably in less extreme situations and if you had to strip them down and use them naked, there is a good Panasonic 18650 cell.

Like I said they seem to work fine in my ZL SC600 and it pulls around 2.9 amps. 

I was hoping that  I had found a cheaper alternative to the AWs and Redilasts and I wanted a blue battery to match my flashlight. I expected that they would  perform at least as good as the Trustfire flames as the TFs work great powering all the single XM-L lights I own.  

You roll the dice on these kind of purchases. At this point, I've reassigned the cells to a lesser job than I was originally going to use them and have moved on. I just saw this thread for the first time today and thought I would share my experiences with these batteries. 

I wouldn't buy them again at the current price.

 

HKJ wrote:

The low current limit is, of course, a serious problem for people that bought them for use in a XM-L light.

 

That's what I bought them for. 

ri chevy
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I also bought them for use in an XM-L P-60 light. 

matjok
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I bought a total of six, but I still haven't received even the first order (that was placed almost a month ago.) I too am disappointed, but I should have waited to place the second order anyway.

Now, can someone post detailed instructions on how to remove the garbage PCB s? Newbie here with very limited know how...Smile

benckie
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The batteries them selfs are good and genuine you can see that from all the testing ive done in this thread, the pcb,s are a little disappointing and not all users might be able to use all the mAh of the 3100 mAh batteries but this goes for AW and redilast batteries 2900 mAh and above.

ri chevy
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matjok wrote:

I bought a total of six, but I still haven't received even the first order (that was placed almost a month ago.) I too am disappointed, but I should have waited to place the second order anyway.  Now, can someone post detailed instructions on how to remove the garbage PCB s? Newbie here with very limited know how...

 

I would just use them the way they are.  I would not take them apart.  They do work.  I use them on medium power, and they work fine.  Just not on high power, as they trip out the PCB.  The cell is excellent, just the PCB.  You will be happier leaving them the way you get them.  Just my 2 cents.

Volk
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I just saw on Intl-Outdoors page that they removed the protected version of the batterie and added this text to the description:

"Upgrated Protected version coming soon."

Lets hope the new circuit works better than the last one.

benckie
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Yeah next time I'll wait till they are tryed and tested.

From my testing your loosing 50% + of the mAh with the original pcb's still attached what's the point of using 3100 mAh batteries when your getting half of that mAh.

To get the full mAh and current draw you need to remove the pcb's in my example, but you have to take a bit more care with using them in your torches.

If you looking at the testing I did with the pcb's still on the batteries to the test with out the pcb's there is a big diffrence in mAh and cut off voltage, but I'm guessing just about all of the pcb's will perform diffeent.

They are good batteries in unprotected form, but I guess some of us ordered protected batteries, if people want to remove the pcb's do so at your own risk but once the wrapper is removed you will see what need's to be done.

People need to decide what's best for them unreliable pcb's or no pcb's I would recommend people to test the batteries first before removing the pcb's if they can.

Im trying to be neutral.

 

HKJ
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benckie wrote:
From my testing your loosing 50% + of the mAh with the original pcb's still attached what's the point of using 3100 mAh batteries when your getting half of that mAh.

 

As long as you uses the batteries in lights with less than about 3 A current draw you do not loose any mAh.

At 0.2 ampere you get more than 3000 mAh and at 2 ampere you get more than 2800 mAh when discharging to 2.8 volt.

 

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

benckie
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Seriously how many people would buy protected panisonic cells to only draw 0.2 amps max from the cells.

With the pcb's I could not get 2800 mAh at 2 amps, remember I'm talking about the pcb's not the cells, the unprotected cells perform well under all loads.

All cells will drop mAh under high loads, how much depends on the quality of the cells.

I brough these for a gift to be used in lights with a current draw of 1.7 amps single and in series use minimum but with a maxium draw of 3 amps in single and in series use but they could not handle that that in protected form.

Im happy cause I got a full refund but I did spend many hours on these cells test for the forum, like I said before each pcb will perform different from the quality of them, you might even get better results out of your free batteries.

HKJ
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My curves looks good:

 

The protection current test for the second cell is not finished yet.

If you have protections that trips below 2 ampere, it does spoil the usefulness of the battery.

 

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

benckie
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They do look good till you get above 2 amps.

Yes you can use a battery that trips at 2 amps no problem, if you don't want to use it with a Xm-l on medium or high, some Xm-l's will use 2 amp on medium.

They will trip on a good TR-1200 on high on start up but if you have it start in medium or low with the mode memory it's fine as long as you don't switch it to high.

You can use them on a TR-3T6 on low mode but they trip on medium and high.

You can get away with them on a BC40 some times.

They trip on some Xm-l P60 drop in's on high but you still can use them on low and some mid modes.

You can run them on high in xr-e lights like Q5 and R2 emmiters on high as mine draw around 1 amp.

This is my experience

You can use them no worries on low current draw lights. But why spend dood money on Panisonic cells that are capible of high discharge rates, when you could of brought 4 good trustfire flames for the same price they give you more run time combined and betters protection and can handle more then 2 amp discharges and in my opinion have more usible voltage.

The problem I've found was when trying to run these protected cells in lights that draw more then your recommended max is if you acidently hit medium or high mode the protection trips so you have to put them back on the charger to reset the protection, this is painful and even more painful when you out and about.

Now your tests are great but you have shown the protection is bad and not that was claimed, I fear alot of people brought these to draw more then 2 Amps myself included.

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benckie wrote:

You can use them no worries on low current draw lights. But why spend dood money on Panisonic cells that are capible of high discharge rates, when you could of brought 4 good trustfire flames for the same price they give you more run time combined and betters protection and can handle more then 2 amp discharges and in my opinion have more usible voltage.

You can always get cheaper capacity from Chinese cells, than from Panasonic cells. What is interesting about these cells is that they are the cheapest protected Panasonic 3100 cells you can get. What you get with these Panasonic cells is some of the safest cells and the highest capacity. They will probably also outlast any Flame cells.

benckie wrote:

Now your tests are great but you have shown the protection is bad and not that was claimed, I fear alot of people brought these to draw more then 2 Amps myself included.

The low trip point on the protection is a problem for many people and I do also expect that most people bought these cells for use in a XM-L light. For this the battery is just about useless, but if you move it to a less current hungry light it is a good battery.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

benckie
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I was charged double shipping for my protected panisonic cells since i only brought two im not sure if this is normal or not.

If thats the case i was much more impressed with the protected redilast 2600 mAh batteries, since the cut off is 2.75 volt i feel they have slightly more usible voltage to me.

They still give over 2400 mAh discharged at 5.2 amps to 2.75 volt and 2500 mAh discharged to 3 volt at 0.5 amps.

Im still yet to do more discharge test's to 2.75 volt, but they have great protection but cost around $3 usd more cause of the international shipping to Australia.

The way i see it there protected panisonic cells cost me $31 usd shipped for 2 (and they failed in my opinion)

The redilast protected 2600 cost me $34 usd with international shipping for 2 (they are cheap shipped inside the usa)

The good protected trustfire flames cost $33 usd shipped for 6.

The unprotected panisonic cells are great just not the protected cells, but will they last 3 times longer then a protected trustfire flames cell to reflect the price, im not sure as even your self your still testing flames that are 12 months old.

So will 1 protected panisonic cell last 3 times longer then one flame, maybe if the panisonic,s pcb does not fail and the other way around, but i think 3 flames for the same price as 1 protected panisonic, will last just as long or longer and will give more run time combined and 3 cells would not be worked as hard as one.

Even the cheap  trustfire flames i tested give 2500 mAh when discharged to 3 volt at 0.5 amps, but they do not rate as good as the panisonic,s at higher discharge test, but since im talking about the protected versions that will not do high discharging that does not matter.

The trustfire flames do actualy give more mAh and do not trip at 3 amps then the protected panisonic,s i tested, but they might not last as long but you can buy 6 for the price of 2 protected panisonics pritty much, 6 batteries would not be worked as hard as two batteries one would think.

Now like i said the unprotected panisonic cells are good, Hank from int-outdoor is good, but i can not recomend these in protected form as there is a good chance people want more then 2 amps from them, but they dont sell the protected form any more, im sure the new ones they will sell in the future will be better but will most likely cost more.

Im just trying to add some prospective and not let my full refund so basicly fee cells sway my opinion on the cells.

 

HKJ wrote:

What is interesting about these cells is that they are the cheapest protected Panasonic 3100 cells you can get.

Unfortunaly we know why one cheap mosfet thats not capible of high discharge rates.

ANTI-NOWHERE-LEAGUE
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Considering that a website is your shop window, nothing should be put up for sale that is not performance tested IMHO......Unless you have more front than Woolworths.

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Guys,

 

How about these NCR18650A 3100mAh with welded top button, but without protection add-on PCB ?

 

 

Size would be just about right for any flashlight, and you can use them connected in series.

 

Thank you for your opinion

 

 

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bbb0777 wrote:

Possibly a dumb question but - compared to AW:  How are Panasonics? 

All I admittedly know is CPF: AW, etc.

AW takes a cell and add some protection, this is the same as intl-outdoor, RediLast and lot of other does and all uses the Panasonic cell (inclusive AW) for the 3100mAh battery, i.e. they are just about the same in capacity. Actual performance at high currents will vary with protection PCB.

I have done test of both AW and intl-outdoor and also some other batteries, you can find these test here and on my website. I will also post comparisons charts between these batteries, making it easier to see the differences.

 

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

darcyh
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I ordered 3 of these cells and received them last week. I have tested them in a Fenix TK30 and TK35 on high / turbo mode and they perform satisfactorily; no protection cut off.

Stephen Wallace
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Whether the original PCB is going to be an issue or not is all going to come down to what the current draw actually is in that particular light - it's going to be fine for some lights, but not for others. I could happily use these in any of my single XR-E or XP-G lights for instance. A moderately driven single XM-L is also no problem. When you start looking at things like fully driven MC-Es, P7s,SST-50s, XM-Ls etc. then you are likely to find that the current draw will be too high for the protection circuit.

benckie
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Keep the current draw to around 2 amps max, they should not trip and you should not loose to much run time.

I do find this funny "2 amp maxium current draw from panisonics" or is it just me.

Im waiting for the new version to come out and be well tested before I jump in again, but then xtar are releasing cheap protected 3100,s

SpaceCowboy
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Panasonic bare cells NCR18650A  will run up to 6A w/o problem.

benckie
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Yes the unprotected ones will, I've tested them on this thread to 6.2 amps, but the protected version we are talking about here will struggle at 2 amps

SpaceCowboy
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That's what happens when manufacturer (seller) cut the corners on PCB design to save some $$.

 

Bare NCR 18650A cells are the best 18650 cells on the market (so far) - no doubt about that.

benckie
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Yes great cells, even better if you can use them down to 2.5 volt.

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Hello everyone, im new here. Very nice forum. Great review.

Im new to all this - and I have ordered 4 x NCR1850A batteries. I was planning on using them in a dereelight dbs-t aspheric with the 1.5a EZ900 pill - but now I have some questions/concerns.(using 2 x panasonic unprotected 18650's)

Basically I ordered these batteries because I had read they were very good batteries.(same reason I ordered the torch)

Problem is, the more reading I do, the more worried I get that I cannot use 2 x NCR18650A unprotected cells together in my new Dereelight.

I must have read dozens of pages on the subject already but cant really find a solid answer. I have learnt that over charging and over discharding are the main safety concerns with unprotected cells. I have also learnt that panasonic cells are very safe/reliable even if unprotected.

So my basic question is, can i use two of these togerher in my new dereelight? Assuming I measure voltage while charging etc, and dont let them get too low on power? Almost eveything i have read suggests almost all problems/fires etc happen while charging..so i cant really see the problem.

Comments?

thanks very much

Buwuve
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Hello,

I think it will be the easiest way to ask user 2100 - he has the light (and a lot others, too) and I think, he has some unprotecetd batteries, too. Maybe he could answer your question well.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/5922

Light up the darkness.

aurum
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When will the protected Version be available?

HKJ
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aurum wrote:

When will the protected Version be available?

 

You can already get the Panasonic NCR18650A in protected versions, but not from Panasonic.

All the 3100mAh batteries listed in my comparison uses the above cell (And I will be adding more).

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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