BLF17DD Info Thread - Reference

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ChibiM
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anyone has some close up shots of these BLF17DD populated?

I ordered a Parts-Set from mtnelectronics, but I have more parts than the one in the first post of this thread.

also, mtnelectronics is offline for the moment, so I can`t see any of his pictures.

Tom E
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Here's some variety shots - think the BLF17DD current version is included:

 

ChibiM
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Thanks a lot!

the top 3 look like mine.

now double checking all the parts.

Is C1 and on the opposite side number #4 the same thing?

I have 2 of them... 1 came in a black packaging, and the other in white with a red pen mark.

edit: my short memory wasnt working well... 1 came in white tape, the other in transparent tape

RMM
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If you got a capacitor in black packaging it wasn't from me. The small capacitor goes on the MCU side and the large one goes on C1.  Should have been one in clear tape (the big one) and another in paper tape (the small one). 

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Tom E
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Oops, looks better:

"C1" is the common cap of 10UF on all Nanjg's, while #4 is the OTC cap - lower value. You need OTC support in your firmware to take advantage of it. I like the "noinit" firmware versions floating around which makes the OTC cap unnecessary by using the "brown out" detection capability of the MCU.

ChibiM
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RMM wrote:

If you got a capacitor in black packaging it wasn't from me. The small capacitor goes on the MCU side and the large one goes on C1.  Should have been one in clear tape (the big one) and another in paper tape (the small one). 

you`re correct... even my short memory didnt work.

I have 1 in transparent package,and 1 in white... the transparent has a red pen mark.

(I see you call it tape,I wasnt sure what to call it)

ChibiM
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Thanks guys!

MRsDNF
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Nice shots Tom E let alone drivers. I admire your abilities.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Tom E
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MRsDNF wrote:

Nice shots Tom E let alone drivers. I admire your abilities.

Thanx! Not bad for a reflow station that consists of a coffee mug warmer and an embossing heat gun Smile.

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I bought a similar embossing gun to yours when you first posted about it and have not looked back reflowing leds. I'll have to post up a picture later how its set up. How do you use yours?

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Tom E
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Smile It's not my idea btw... A friend of mine set me up with this stuff - he's an EE by trade, but sort of software engineer/super hobbyist - rockets, RC's, ham radios, etc. He's like a lot of us - just a big kid play'n with his toys Smile.

What I do is get my mug warmer up to temp, sit the board with the solder paste and parts on there for like a minute to warm up, then go over it carefully, but keep the hot air gun moving, usually pretty close, an inch or two. The paste goes thru cycles - watery first, then dries out and hardens bit, then some bubbling and smoke is a good sign you are getting close, then finally we get liquid metal...

Usually things go well, but sometimes I get parts float'n around, blown off, and even had caps stand up on one end?? Weird things can happen...

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Tom E wrote:

Usually things go well, but sometimes I get parts float'n around, blown off, and even had caps stand up on one end?? Weird things can happen...

That's called a "tombstoned" part.  That happens when one pad heats up a lot faster than the other, like when you have a large ground plane on one side of the component and a thin trace on the other, and you haven't given time for the board's temperature to equalize.  Pre-heating or heating more evenly across the entire board instead of focusing on a particular component generally eliminates this. 

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For the BLF17DD driver: whats the most suitable mosfet atm, as long as 70N02 isnt awailable anymore and Digikey EU shipping fee is 55$- anybody from Europe found a suitable solution?

Actualy there are Aliexpress offers for 70N02 and AOD510 but i aint sure in their quality

What do you think of this one

Tom E
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Sorry can't help - no clue there. I still have a few original 70N02's I'm using up slowly, though I've pretty much transitioned now to wight's A17HYBRID-S board, using the SIR800P FET - great design for it's low profile, single sided parts, high performance, and ability to run a single 7135 for low modes. Right now I'm using 5 modes with the first 3 out of the 7135 at PWM values of 4 (or 5), 30, and 255.

Mostly I consider this board obsoleted, but there still can be applications. Richard knows a whole lot more about this stuff, but he sells these FET's, and I would think they are excellent - his research for these was intense:

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25&product_id=213

If you can't order them directly from Richard (shipping costs, etc.), I'd check for Euro sources of this exact part.

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Tom, you mean 17mm DD+single-7135 driver ? Can it be controlled via an el switch? Thats the main reason i wanted to try this driver out

Well, i will test that MOSFET anyway, ordered a sample already

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Mitko wrote:
Tom, you mean 17mm DD+single-7135 driver ? Can it be controlled via an el switch? Thats the main reason i wanted to try this driver out Well, i will test that MOSFET anyway, ordered a sample already

Yes, this: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/36710

I've built a couple with my custom e-switch firmware, based on the latest version from JohnnyC, STAR_Momentary (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/trunk/files/head:/JonnyC/STAR/STAR_momentary/). It has full support for the two PWM outputs. Recently modded a UF F35 e-switch light, a Yezl Y3, and now I'm working on a ZY-T11 clone. I got amazing #'s on the F35 and Y3 in a neutral tint, so expecting the same for the very pocketable ZY-T11 clone - it will have a MaxToch 25mm MCPCB screwed down, 20 AWG wires with the LED+ direct connected to the spring from the LED via holes drilled thru the stock driver (stripped) and hole drilled thru the LED+ pad on the HYBRID board. The ZY-T11 clones from BangGood is a great deal for what you getting, and really nice mod host. Like the lockout feature of the anodized thread tailcap, very compact size, nice size reflector for some throw, can take a big MCPCB, excellent reflector for wire soldering clearances, etc. The quality of the anodizing is fair (not good) and you play the lottery on what condition it will be in, but I lucked out on the 3 I've gotten.

guardior
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Mitko wrote:
For the BLF17DD driver: whats the most suitable mosfet atm, as long as 70N02 isnt awailable anymore and Digikey EU shipping fee is 55$- anybody from Europe found a suitable solution?

I was sniffing around a bit and found Farnell:
http://bg.farnell.com/international-rectifier/irlr8721pbf/mosfet-n-d-pak...

They seem to be shipping to many countries. And then there are also Mouser and Digikey. Those I think are the big international ones in electronics, from the west at least.

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Lots of different FETs will work, with the most important factors being on-resistance at 3V-4V gate voltage and total gate charge.  A good starting point is to look for a logic level FET with as low of on-resistance at 4.5V you can find, then go into the data sheet and look at the resistance vs. gate voltage figure.  

Gate charge should only be a problem when you get up into the 80+nC range.  Generally if you stick to FETs that are 30V or lower drain-source rated you will be well under 80nC, and probably under 50nC.  The problem you run into with too much gate charge is that the attiny has a hard time switching it directly at fast PWM in the middle modes.  If you do run into this problem, you can always put a gate resistor inline.  

There are some "big" DPAK-2 FETs that perform slightly better than the IRFR3711ZTRPBF that I now stock, but the difference was slight and the cost increase was huge.  Kind of like a PSMN3R0 vs. the SIR800DP: a tiny, almost imperceptible improvement, but at twice the price or more I don't think it's worth the cost.  

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Thanx Richard for the info!

Yes - I bought a dozen of the SIR800P's at $1.50 each, so I'm burning through them. It's hard to say what's worth 75 cents, and I'm not sure if I'll continue buying them. Putting it in perspective of what the total cost of a full mod is, it's certainly a small part of the typical $12-$24 (driver, LED/MCPCB, UCL or AR lens, materials, etc.). I lack the time and maybe expertise to setup a proper test bench for comparing these FET's, so I really appreciate your experience and knowledge on this.

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ChibiM wrote:

... scratch this ...

Some very important tools/rules (hope it helps and not too late):

  • close-up work requires good magnified vision and good, strong lighting. A well lit room is not enough (from my experience).
  • you need magnified vision to wear (I wear contacts that are horrible for close-up work, but using glasses on top of them that are built-in magnified - from drug stores, DX, etc..., it works well)
  • I use a NiteCore HC50 headlamp for getting good lighting right where I need it
  • you also need a stronger magnifier for close inspections of solder joints, solder flow, etc. Better if it has it's own light source.
  • you need to carefully buzz out the board - pretty much all traces, before powering up the board first time
  • any surface mounts that must be in the proper direction (diodes), you must be certain you have it positioned correct.

 It's certainly not for everbody - I could never have done it on my own without professional help I got from guys at work who know wayyy more than I do (super tech, EE's, etc.).

 Of course this list is only partial... Probably could add a dozen more things...

 

ChibiM
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Thanks a lot for the help!

I used one of those cheap ebay loops, which helped me to see that one of the legs of one of the components was just hanging in the air... put solder on there, and now its working..pffff

 

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For this kind of stuff I use a stereo microscope, nothing beats that in seeing what you are doing.

I have one of these oldies (Olympus zooming stereomicroscope) , but any type will do a fine job.

Tom E
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I use a $4 magnifying loop from FastTech (fasttech.com-rotatable-25mm-40x-magnifier). Can't find a link right now for the glasses, but think I use reading glasses in the range of 2.0 to 3.0. You can get them at drug stores ($10-$60) or cheaper ones online.

You can go cheap and still practical Smile.

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Bought a Radio Shack helping hands thingy a few months ago…. and NEVER USED IT!The glass is distorted bottle glass and the helping hands move about too much. P.O.S! Headlamp, aaa light, vice grip and a magnifying glass like what Tom linked to above are what I use. A needle nose tweezers are useful too but be careful! When a smd part pops out of those, they going flying off into oblivion!

My gratitude to those who are willing and able to help others (in whatever way you can)! Being human is more than just existing for yourself. Smile

Tom E
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Same here - I have a couple of those helping hands things and never used them. Can't figure it out, but same problems - mag glass is worthless and hands are too lose and unstable. I use a Harbor Freight desktop vice for just bout everything - with or without the rubber snap-ons, depending. The rubber snap-ons are now in real bad shape - too much distortions and damage from heating, filing, etc.

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I bought a high end headlamp, Nitecore HC90 I think it is, helping hands, and of course I have macro lenses with full frame camera sensors that work in live view.

I don’t use any of it, merely take off my glasses and go to work. Sometimes when building just one driver or with limited time I hand solder the entire driver, solder paste masks be danged. I even spent good money getting a 1” thick piece of aluminum machined to fit on a 6” burner, it sits in my file cabinet.

I use the bevel tip that came on my Hakko, for everything. If it gets to not working I either scrape it off with my scissors or file it down then re-tin it. Supposedly you can’t do this, but it’s been working for me for 2 years. Don’t tell me what I can’t do, I might unknowingly succeed. Wink

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Yes, I know I bought few other things never wound up using.. But love my HC50 - nice wide coverage, use it on 3rd of 5 modes. Just wish it was more neutral tint than cool white -- looks like a bugger to take apart to mod. I really can't see as good without some sort of headlamp or extra light source, though I got 3 big flourescent fixtures in my small room - well lit. Before I used to use an 18650 tube light w/TIR optic in a NiteCore headband, but the headband would stretch out over time, and the light would end up drop'n right where I'm working...

guardior
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How big host will you need to run DD? Will a Ultrafire/Convoy C8 be able to take the heat? Is there a chart somewhere that shows current and time with a good battery for this kind of driver?

Edit: Haha, Tom E is BLFs own little Sherlock Holmes with all his home made solutions. :bigsmile:

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Smile The host size for DD is pretty much personal opinions but there's also a lot of contributing factors:

  • turbo timeout to run hi/turbo for only limited amt of time, or better yet, temp monitoring
  • outside temp. - winter outdoors at 20F may be just fine for DD in a thin tube light
  • battery dependent - don't want 6A? Ok, run a Pana PF that gives you only 5A max, or TrustFire Flame that gets you 4A max
  • don't use high/turbo modes too often - only short bursts. Use the next mode down for most usages
  • the max amps you will get is dependent on the LED/MCPCB - some are only capable of 4-5A max DD while others can go to 6.5A or so at the most (most I've seen)
  • thermal path, mass, heat sink/fins for the critical areas can vary - the bigger light isn't always the best
  • I'd recommend only an aluminum (not plastic) reflector lights for high amps for runtimes over 1 min. I've smoked plastic reflectors a little in a 16340 DD light (MXDL) doin bout 950 lumens in a neutral tint
  • might be ok for the head to get toasty, but probably not so good if the high heat gets down to the cell or any length of time
  • you don't have to have super high amps for all DD setups - keep LED wires small, don't bypass the springs and you'll reduce amps and heat

 I got a 14500 size light, the G10 (dx.com/uniquefire-g10) doin bout 1,100 lumens with a 15DD driver, but actually it's a pretty chunky little light, big for AA size.

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