[PART 1] Official BLF GT Group Buy thread. Group buy officially closed! Lights shipping.

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fuzun
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The Miller wrote:
A if one pays $14 but not the rest, refund with deduction of PayPal fees
B no specific part, come on you have written proof of paying $14 (below tax in like almost all countries) for A part and receive a box stating part, do your own thing, this is as far as we can go and it is pretty decent I think.
C see B
D alternative shipping is with tracking for sender at least, so yes if missed new is send.
E this is it, see B
E1 see E and B, still not enough, sorry just pass on the GT Wink

Please refrain from politics or start a new topic about it Wink


Thank you for reply.

Well, I want to try my luck. So the best you can do is marking both packages as $14 and giving a single invoice for that $14 right? Although it is more risky than the method I have tried to describe, I think as long as $14 payment will be separate there will be no problem considering both packages will be handled by different officer.

However if tax will be demanded, I will let the package which is stuck go back. But the problem is that if one (of two) package passes and the other not because of tax, what will happen? (You know customs work random) And can you write how much is the paypal deduction (for non EU country) and maybe shipping cost (if you deduct it as well) ?

I am sorry I have taken your time. But better prepared before.

adsum
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After paying the first $14 how much in advance we get to know before having pay the rest?

I mean there are those who are on a tight budget but really want this and if the bigger payment comes very fast to be done within only 5 days time frame to be paid some may not be able get enough money to their Paypal accounts to pay.

And many times it really is not possible to keep this amount ready in Paypal.

I know it is ready when it is ready which is completely fine but LT must have some timeline when planning this.

DB Custom
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They did a good job with this, appears to me. And I have to say I’m interested again. While I normally like small things made well that work like a bigger example, in this case it’s made such that a big thing, made well, looks smaller and still works comparative to it’s size. The sheer size alone makes me want to feel it in hand!

So, if it’s not too much trouble, please add me to the interest list and I will see if I can find a way to pay for it. Smile

Thank you.

DBSAR
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I am still definitely interested in this light. Going to sell my horrible fiance’s soul to the devil for the same price to buy the light. (or two) Big Smile

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

rizky_p
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Paypal Ready Mail Big Smile

TorinoFermic
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Living in Canada, I simply don’t know which shipping option to pick for me with less risk of taxes.

But I got paypal ready.

harty73
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please add me to the group buy list

Keisari
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fuzun wrote:
And, customs officer will probably not believe this price and will inspect the product. Is there any mark on the product like GT or BLF? Because if they see any mark, they write that mark to google and they enter to the first shopping site related to that mark and they will note down the price seen on the website and they will charge tax on that price. (%20)

What a stupid system but it is being done in Turkey. So if possible (if there is any mark on the product) I would like one without any marks. Or we just need to remove the cost information from this website and any other which is listed in google when the mark on the flashlight typed.

===

Also I want to ask that if nothing can be done about taxing except re-shipment (sometimes packages go back if tax does not get paid. And sometimes it just passes without any hassle. I would like to improve my chance by making multiple shipments arranged progressively), will you re-ship without recharging for shipping? Will we be able to demand re-shipment if you allow recharging for shipment?


I don’t know about Turkey(which I believe is very tricky), but generally speaking… A false customs declaration is potentially much worse than still being randomly taxed. It’s a criminal offense and (depending on country, more or less theoretically) could result in prosecution.

I’m a bit worried and disturbed by this whole discussion. Actually doing any of this is not exactly legal. A Chinese seller or MFG won’t face the consequences but a BLF user/LT customer might, and someone who looks like a EU business partner and co-conspirator very well might, severely. If I were involved in arranging this deal, situated in Europe and discussed this, I would feel at least a bit uneasy when this systematic customs fraud involving several countries eventually took place.

Not that I oppose avoiding unjust duties and taxes at all, I won’t comment on that one. No politics and stuff. Crazy

The Miller
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Well when it is shipped in two parcels, neither content is worth that much for not usable alone.
If taxes and administration fees are asked for I would pay them and I suggest others do the same for it should be clear what the total value of a GT is so there is no ground to fight being taxed in a truthful manner.

If one can’t or won’t want to pay the taxes and fees it is best to simply not order.
If one does not accept a parcel and wants to have it send again it seems fair shipping must be paid for it, and to avoid endless re-shipping at the cost of Lumintop the amount to be paid ought to be at least the actual cost of original shipping and re-shipping, a wild guess would be $50 minimum.

The GT is not mandatory Wink
Even with taxes the price is nice and lower then the aftermarket price and taxes.
Nobody is forced to buy a GT, if one does it is as with all the $20+ things in the EU for example, one can get lucky or not.
If paying duties is unacceptable for somebody just don’t order something over $20 and leave it Wink

BobbyMK
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^^ What he said.

I am one of the ones who also can’t import the light without import tax but i totally agree with The miller and Keisari.

If you can’t afford to pay/don’t want to pay import tax don’t try stupid things, where i live and i guess every other country trying to import item with false invoice is illegal and might end up with hefty fine and seized item and for me the risk is not worth at all.

With that said i accepted my faith and will not try to do any stupid stuff while trying to import the light, i still haven’t decided on shipping method and will when The Miller gives me some additional info i wanted via PM.

 Olight i3s, Olight S1, Olight S Mini, JetBeam Jet-1, BLF 348, Astrolux S41S, UF SK-98, Convoy S2+ 3*XP-G2, Convoy S2+ 3*XPL, Convoy S2+ 219CT, Convoy M1, Convoy C8, Brinyte B158, Courui D01, Convoy L6, Noctigon M43

Theodore41
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Keisari][quote=fuzun wrote:

…………..
A false customs declaration is potentially much worse than still being randomly taxed. It’s a criminal offense and (depending on country, more or less theoretically) could result in prosecution.
………………………


You know that the declaration is done by the seller and not by the buyer…
The Miller
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Theodore41][quote=Keisari wrote:
fuzun wrote:

…………..
A false customs declaration is potentially much worse than still being randomly taxed. It’s a criminal offense and (depending on country, more or less theoretically) could result in prosecution.
………………………


You know that the declaration is done by the seller and not by the buyer…

Yes but all this talk about several false invoices to avoid paying taxes is on or over the edge, IF we would have gone forward and ask from Lumintop to facilitate these kind of things it very well could mean big troubles for me.

Theodore41
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I see…

AdrianWA
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So everyone needs to pay 14 dollars up front? To whom?

The Miller
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Yes to Neal

Essexman
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Customs fees and charges are the buyers responsibility.

Even with extra charges this light is a very good deal.

The group buy team and light manufacturer have already gone far beyond what they should be expected to do, to help BLF members.

I understand in the US it’s a federal offence to falsify customs documents.

The Miller
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Yes I think so too, LT wanted a down payment so paying in two was good, keeping the first payment under the tax threshold is OK but also as far as I will take it.
If one gets taxed it is according to local laws and should be paid, simple as that.
If one does not want to pay taxes on the GT, just don’t order and ask to be removed from the list Smile

Texas_Ace
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Lumintops responsibility with the customs/duties/taxes on the light ends when it ships.

You have a choice of DHL in a single shipment or 2 smaller shipments and they will not include an invoice in the package is the way I understand it. They will label the 2 package shipping arrangement as $14 each on the customs.

Everything else is up to you, if the package is taxed and you refuse it, that is your fault and the shipping cost will not be refunded nor will another light be shipped. It is not even remotely fair to make LT eat peoples mistakes and inability to pay taxes. For example, if I was going to be changed taxes and I could not afford them, I would not order it.

I also 100% agree that any talk beyond this is unpleasant, which is why I have not participated till now.

– You buy the light, you are responsible for figuring out if there will be taxes, customs of duty charges for your selected shipping method.

– You are responsible for paying any and all fees, taxes or otherwise. Add those into the cost of the light before deciding if it is worth it for you, there are plenty of people to take your place if not.

– If you refuse a package you will not be refunded the shipping or paypal costs as that would cause a massive loss to lumintop and could easily end them ever wanting to work with us ever again.

– If you refuse half a shipment, you will only be refunded part of the total cost depending on which part is returned to lumintop

– Any refunds will not be sent until Lumintop received the refused package back to verify that it was indeed refused, anything else would be unfair to LT, you don’t expect them to send you the light without payment, they can not be expected to do that.

Theodore41
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You told them all! Smile

RotorHead64
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Thank you Texas_Ace

Keisari
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Theodore41 wrote:
Keisari wrote:
…………..
A false customs declaration is potentially much worse than still being randomly taxed. It’s a criminal offense and (depending on country, more or less theoretically) could result in prosecution.
………………………


You know that the declaration is done by the seller and not by the buyer…

Oh, on the contrary. I was more worried about the declaration given by the buyer, the recipient. More specifically there was discussion on forging an invoice or fraudulently presenting an unrelated or incomplete document to make the product value appear low, thus avoiding taxes and duties.

I didn’t mean the notoriously inaccurate and untrue formal stuff printed on a shipment. I mean the actual declaration of contents and price paid that is requested by the the customs and given by buyer in case the shipment is processed more than just letting it pass. Only a few flashlights and similar items will get his process, but large and expensive looking examples have a higher risk.

Around here and illegal or restricted items aside, most often they look for items that may exceed import VAT limits that are typically lower than import duty limits. Varies a lot by country even within EU.

Some parcel services also want to have everything declared in some countries of destination, and what I stated earlier applies to regular postal service.

Joey Adams
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What did you expect? He is, after all, from the United State of Texas! Well said TA. No reason for LT or the blf contributors to have any undue liability.

fuzun
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Texas_Ace wrote:
Lumintops responsibility with the light ends when it ships. You have a choice of DHL in a single shipment or 2 smaller shipments and they will not include an invoice in the package is the way I understand it. They will label the 2 package shipping arrangement as $14 each on the customs.

Everything else is up to you, if the package is taxed and you refuse it, that is your fault and the shipping cost will not be refunded nor will another light be shipped. It is not even remotely fair to make LT eat peoples mistakes and inability to pay taxes. For example, if I was going to be changed taxes and I could not afford them, I would not order it.

I also 100% agree that any talk beyond this is unpleasant, which is why I have not participated till now.

You buy the light, you are responsible for figuring out if there will be taxes, customs of duty charges for your selected shipping method.
You are responsible for paying any and all fees, taxes or otherwise.
If you refuse a package you will not be refunded the shipping or paypal costs as that would cause a massive loss to lumintop and could easily end them ever wanting to work with us ever again.


Yeah this sums up the situation. I agree with you and I am not saying that Lumintop needs to be involved in this tax avoid thing. But you know Chinese sellers generally do their best for this situation. Maybe Lumintop is one of them and they may take some extra caution for this if we talk them. (not saying we should talk)

Anyway, I will decide whether or not to buy this light if you tell me,

1) Exact shipping cost ($50 ?) . For the case packages go back.
2) Is that certain that both packages will have $14 written on them?
3) Exact Paypal or any other cost for refunding.
4) Weight of the two packages.

These are all of my questions for tax. I will not ask more question related to this topic because I agree that it is unpleasant.

If I can not and if I let the packages go back, I will (of course) get the refund with any fees deducted. I can not complain about this. But I want to find out the total fee to be deducted to decide whether or not to buy it like I have said (If I refuse to pay tax).

But if you say that even though fees will be deducted from refund, you need to accept paying tax before buying. I think this is unfair.

Texas_Ace
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fuzun wrote:
[1) Exact shipping cost ($50 ?) . For the case packages go back. 2) Is that certain that both packages will have $14 written on them? 3) Exact Paypal or any other cost for refunding. 4) Weight of the two packages.

1: The actual shipping costs will vary by destination and method. Exact costs will depend on final weights and other factors. I would take a VERY rough guess and say it is around $30-$50. I have very little experience with china shipping prices except what I have learned in the last few months though.
2: Yes, as I understand it LT will put the cost of the lights as $14 for each of the 2 package shipment
3: This will be determined after the fact but I would take another guess that fees for paypal and the like would be between $5 – $10 depending on the price you paid and exactly how paypal works in China, might have higher fees over there. Call it $10 to cover the time and effort that lumintop would have to spend dealing with the returns as well.
4: The total weight of the light is around 2.2kg + packaging. figure that will be roughly split between 2 packages, it will most likely not be an even split. Then add any cells if those were ordered as well.

You are obviously welcome to make your own decisions on what to do about the taxes but they are yours alone to make.

If you figure it is worth the risk, then that is up to you. Seeing as I would expect the total deduction from any refund to be at least $50, that is a lot of money to throw away vs just paying the taxes IMHO.

g_sintornillos
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BobbyMK wrote:
^^ What he said.

I am one of the ones who also can’t import the light without import tax but i totally agree with The miller and Keisari.

If you can’t afford to pay/don’t want to pay import tax don’t try stupid things, where i live and i guess every other country trying to import item with false invoice is illegal and might end up with hefty fine and seized item and for me the risk is not worth at all.

With that said i accepted my faith and will not try to do any stupid stuff while trying to import the light,

+1

In my country to enter any package can not avoid the import procedures in any way, must be made prior to arrival in the country

The declaration must present the invoice, proof of payment (Paypal) and photocopies of the credit card and identity document, must match the name of the buyer in each of them, must also match the number of the card in proof of payment
This way Big Brother can verify if everything is true
There is no chance of evading

I am going to use DHL shipping

PS. I also need as soon as possible the tracking number to fill out and submit the declaration before the arrival of the package to the country

Sorry for my bad English (gogole transtorla)

Jimmy007
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One has to pay taxes, the other one no. It’s lucky or Country Rules so there is no space to discuss about it Wink
Lets do pay 14$ and wait… When we will have to pay 14$?

The Miller
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Yes
We are checking some last things and when it all is settled will prepare a PM.
I hope Mr Scott and SB have figured out sending bulk PMs soon Wink

adsum
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After paying the $14 first part payment how much prepare time in advance we get before we have to pay the last part?
It would be nice to know because there has been this really short only 5 day window to make payments.
Easier to do with smaller amounts but sudden bigger amounts within only 5 days to be paid may sometimes be difficult to get sufficient amount of money to Paypal account on time.

cccpull
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The Miller, is the core list going to be updated?

The Miller
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cccpull wrote:
The Miller, is the core list going to be updated?

Yes of course, just very busy and hardly sitting behind a PC these days. But will do tomorrow.

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