Noctigon KR1 pocket thrower for pre-order

1506 posts / 0 new
Last post
zak.wilson
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 18 min ago
Joined: 09/29/2014 - 14:27
Posts: 994

I’d love to see a single-emitter version of this with a reflector or a throwy TIR. I might even need two of those.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

Hank Wang
Offline
Last seen: 16 min 9 sec ago
Joined: 10/19/2011 - 10:28
Posts: 470
Location: China

zak.wilson wrote:
I’d love to see a single-emitter version of this with a reflector or a throwy TIR. I might even need two of those.
TIR can never be throwy enough in my opnion, if I want a thrower, it will always be a relfector based flashlight.

https://intl-outdoor.com, Noctigon, Emisar, flashlight components.

Juslearnin
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 12/11/2019 - 03:15
Posts: 23

So, is there a K1 coming?

And, any timeline on the D1S?

atobe
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 09/14/2019 - 23:27
Posts: 283
Location: California

Juslearnin wrote:
So, is there a K1 coming?

And, any timeline on the D1S?

https://intl-outdoor.com/led-flashlights/k1-21700-thrower-led-flashlight... K1 here

ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 1230
Location: MN

They mean a “KR1”, a single-emitter KR4.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10310
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
Hank Wang wrote:
zak.wilson wrote:
I’d love to see a single-emitter version of this with a reflector or a throwy TIR. I might even need two of those.

TIR can never be throwy enough in my opnion, if I want a thrower, it will always be a relfector based flashlight.

Not a thrower.

Ever since the original D4 came out, people have been asking for a specific type of light which Intl-Outdoor has not yet made — a single-emitter EDC-style light. Basically, a Noctigon version of something like a ZebraLight SC64 or an Olight S2.

The D4 makes about 4 or 5 cd/lm, while the D1 makes about 33 cd/lm. Between the two is a hole in the product line.

The goal would be to fill that hole with something as small as possible with 18650 and one LED — narrower and lighter than a D4, with thinner walls. The beam pattern would be about 10 or 12 cd/lm. Ideally, with a deep carry clip which is straight and runs parallel to the body. The body is probably about 21 mm in diameter, the head is as narrow (or almost as narrow) as the body, and the light is ideally under 100 mm in length if possible.

Something like this would work well with a regulated 5A driver. For the LED, it might make sense to use XP-L HI, XP-L HD, LH351D, or 4xE21A / 4xE17A arranged together so the LEDs touch each other.

The choice of optic or reflector probably depends on which LED is used and how throwy it is. For example, XP-L HI might work with a frosted TIR or a heavy orange-peel reflector, while LH351D might work better with a clear TIR or a light orange-peel reflector. It would require some experimentation to produce a nice-looking beam with the right amount of candelas per lumen.

I hope this description clarifies the idea.

oweban
oweban's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 02/12/2019 - 06:34
Posts: 1027
Location: Sydney AU

id30209
id30209's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 05/17/2018 - 12:20
Posts: 979
Location: Croatia

ToyKeeper wrote:
Something like this would work well with a regulated 5A driver. For the LED, it might make sense to use XP-L HI, XP-L HD, LH351D, or 4xE21A / 4xE17A arranged together so the LEDs touch each other. The choice of optic or reflector probably depends on which LED is used and how throwy it is.

http://kaidomain.com/Flashlight-DIY-and-Tools/led-pcbs-or-mcpcbs/20mm-x-...

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

oweban
oweban's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 02/12/2019 - 06:34
Posts: 1027
Location: Sydney AU
KawiBoy1428
KawiBoy1428's picture
Online
Last seen: 10 min 12 sec ago
Joined: 04/11/2014 - 18:05
Posts: 4128
Location: The Motor City

Hank Wang wrote:
zak.wilson wrote:
I’d love to see a single-emitter version of this with a reflector or a throwy TIR. I might even need two of those.
TIR can never be throwy enough in my opnion, if I want a thrower, it will always be a relfector based flashlight.
Beer Thumbs Up

KB1428 “Live Life WOT

Hikelite
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 07/13/2011 - 16:18
Posts: 3764
Location: RO

ToyKeeper wrote:

For the LED, it might make sense to use XP-L HI, XP-L HD, LH351D, or 4xE21A / 4xE17A arranged together so the LEDs touch each other.

This is essentially XHP70, XHP50, XHP35 under one single footprint which one can actually solder properly not having headaches with alignment in mass production of 4 different footprints. This is exactly why XHP50 in 3V is used for without wasting so much space with a wide base, time and effort.
And the beam pattern is not better than what those XHP type of LEDs have to offer.

maba
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 43 min ago
Joined: 05/27/2017 - 17:39
Posts: 135
Location: Poland

Please for XHP35 Hi 4500K CRI80+ Love Love Love

trakcon
trakcon's picture
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 25 sec ago
Joined: 01/23/2019 - 15:50
Posts: 274
maba wrote:
Please for XHP35 Hi 4500K CRI80+ Love Love Love

This would be a great KR1 option!

MoreLumens
MoreLumens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 13 min ago
Joined: 10/25/2019 - 07:08
Posts: 485
Location: Finland
maba wrote:
Please for XHP35 Hi 4500K CRI80+ Love Love Love

Goodie. Thumbs Up

zak.wilson
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 18 min ago
Joined: 09/29/2014 - 14:27
Posts: 994
Hank Wang wrote:
TIR can never be throwy enough in my opnion, if I want a thrower, it will always be a relfector based flashlight.

I just want to second what ToyKeeper replied to this. What she and I are talking about is not a thrower, but an EDC light that’s more throwy than a D4. It may or may not have more maximum turn-on throw (it probably would using an SST-20), but able to do a given amount of throw (e.g. 5000 candela) with less heat and battery use. My first choice of optic would probably be a textured reflector, which loses a tiny bit of throw for a smoother beam.

The Lumintop FW1A is similar to what we’re describing, but I think Noctigon could do a better job. A slimmer host would be ideal, but the same host with a slightly longer head to accommodate the single optic would work for me.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12912
Location: LI NY

I see no point in smoothing out a beam intended for max throw. An XPL-HI in a SMO reflector looks great to me - I have many modded XPL-HI V2 5D's and V4 3C's in SMO EDC's, all have a good look'n beam. SST-20's have to be CW/low CRI to get decent throw. The 95+ CRI SST-20's don't throw well.

bmengineer
bmengineer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 20 min ago
Joined: 01/26/2018 - 11:38
Posts: 965
Location: Ontario, Canada

Tom E wrote:

I see no point in smoothing out a beam intended for max throw. An XPL-HI in a SMO reflector looks great to me – I have many modded XPL-HI V2 5D’s and V4 3C’s in SMO EDC’s, all have a good look’n beam. SST-20’s have to be CW/low CRI to get decent throw. The 95+ CRI SST-20’s don’t throw well.


The point is an all around versatile beam, not maximum throw.

Find all my reviews of flashlights and more gear at www.bmengineer.com

zak.wilson
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 18 min ago
Joined: 09/29/2014 - 14:27
Posts: 994
Tom E wrote:

I see no point in smoothing out a beam intended for max throw. An XPL-HI in a SMO reflector looks great to me – I have many modded XPL-HI V2 5D’s and V4 3C’s in SMO EDC’s, all have a good look’n beam. SST-20’s have to be CW/low CRI to get decent throw. The 95+ CRI SST-20’s don’t throw well.

Max throw is not the goal of what I suggested, and given TK’s inclusion of the LH351D and clustered E21A quad on her list of suggested emitters while excluding the White Flat and Boost HX, I’m going to assume she’s having a similar thought. The goal is to be a good EDC light that’s balanced. The D4 is very floody. A White Flat in a 20mm reflector is very throwy. Somewhere between those extremes lie most popular EDC lights, like the Zebralight in my pocket as I write this, or the Lumintop FW1A. Hank has never made a light in that class – perhaps it’s too ordinary when Hank is often pushing the limits, but I’d buy one.

As for high-CRI SST-20s, I have one in my XinTD C8. It’s not far off what an XP-L HI would do, and the better color rendering helps some objects to stand out against their backgrounds. I could put a Boost HL and a FET driver in that C8 and it would throw a lot farther, but it wouldn’t be more useful to me.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

zak.wilson
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 18 min ago
Joined: 09/29/2014 - 14:27
Posts: 994
Hikelite wrote:
This is essentially XHP70, XHP50, XHP35 under one single footprint which one can actually solder properly not having headaches with alignment in mass production of 4 different footprints. This is exactly why XHP50 in 3V is used for without wasting so much space with a wide base, time and effort. And the beam pattern is not better than what those XHP type of LEDs have to offer.

Those of us talking about clustered (almost-touching) E21As are familiar with the Cree XHP series, Nichia 144A, and other single-package multi-die emitters. We still want the clustered E21As.

I think the optimization Clemence came up with was to position them slightly too deep in a throwy optic or reflector. That does lose a bit of throw, but smooths out the beam pattern. People who want clustered E21As will generally be happy with that tradeoff.

Why bother? Because E21As are beautiful. They’re prettier than 219Bs, and that’s hard to do.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 1230
Location: MN

TIR can be very throwy depending on size and design, Fireflies E01 is a perfect example of this. Parabolic reflectors and TIR optics follow the same physical laws and have the same limitations.

E21A quadtrix model would be an insta-buy for me, it’s’ very easy to smooth the beam out with some DC Fix if people are bothered by a donut hole (and with an OP reflector + Hank’s talent at reflector design it shouldn’t be that bad anyway).

Di_Joker
Di_Joker's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 02/21/2018 - 08:07
Posts: 274
Location: RU
Hank Wang wrote:

I ask you to think about the production of a battery accessory for NOCTIGON 4*18650 METEOR M43 and EMISAR D18. To use flat top batteries.

Sorry for my poor english.

Yokiamy
Yokiamy's picture
Online
Last seen: 13 min 27 sec ago
Joined: 10/18/2016 - 15:47
Posts: 2410
Location: Netherlands

Good idea, that’s actually the Convoy 4×18A flattop adapter, i am using it on my BLF Q8 Wink
Maybe Hank (or Simon) is willing to sell it as replacement part

iamlucky13
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 31 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 09:18
Posts: 754
Location: USA

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
TIR can be very throwy depending on size and design, Fireflies E01 is a perfect example of this. Parabolic reflectors and TIR optics follow the same physical laws and have the same limitations.

E21A quadtrix model would be an insta-buy for me, it’s’ very easy to smooth the beam out with some DC Fix if people are bothered by a donut hole (and with an OP reflector + Hank’s talent at reflector design it shouldn’t be that bad anyway).

I would expect the E21A should work fine with a quad Carclo. I don’t know what the throw would be. Carclo’s website indicates not much better than a 219C. I would have expected a bigger difference.

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 1230
Location: MN

iamlucky13 wrote:
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
TIR can be very throwy depending on size and design, Fireflies E01 is a perfect example of this. Parabolic reflectors and TIR optics follow the same physical laws and have the same limitations.

E21A quadtrix model would be an insta-buy for me, it’s’ very easy to smooth the beam out with some DC Fix if people are bothered by a donut hole (and with an OP reflector + Hank’s talent at reflector design it shouldn’t be that bad anyway).

I would expect the E21A should work fine with a quad Carclo. I don’t know what the throw would be. Carclo’s website indicates not much better than a 219C. I would have expected a bigger difference.

I mean version with quadtrix board like Virence makes with the emitters centered in a reflector.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10310
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

It has already been said, but just to confirm… The idea is to make a general-purpose daily-carry light with a beam which is balanced and beautiful. It is not meant to maximize throw or lumens. It is meant to be small and practical. The beam would ideally be around 10 or 12 cd / lm, with the beam blended well enough that it would not have any sharp edges or a rainbow effect. This could require a frosted lens, frosted optic, or de-focused reflector.

The D4S beam is pretty close to what I have in mind. However, the D4S is 32 to 39 mm in diameter, and I’m hoping for a much smaller light which is more like 21 mm — basically as small as possible with an unprotected 18650 cell. Also, I would blend its beam a little more because the edges of the D4S hotspot are a bit sharp.

I suggested E17A / E21A because they usually make the most beautiful beam. However, there are other nice options too. I particularly like Nichia 219B, XP-L HI, and XHP35 HI. These are all good at keeping a consistent color throughout the entire beam… unlike rainbow beam LEDs like XP-G3 and XHP50.2.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10310
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

That’s all just ideas for later though. For now, I’m really looking forward to the KR4 with XP-L HI and E21A. Smile

anonymous_user
Offline
Last seen: 43 min 51 sec ago
Joined: 05/23/2019 - 21:59
Posts: 236
Location: CA, USA

ToyKeeper wrote:
It has already been said, but just to confirm… The idea is to make a general-purpose daily-carry light with a beam which is balanced and beautiful. It is not meant to maximize throw or lumens. It is meant to be small and practical. The beam would ideally be around 10 or 12 cd / lm, with the beam blended well enough that it would not have any sharp edges or a rainbow effect. This could require a frosted lens, frosted optic, or de-focused reflector.

The D4S beam is pretty close to what I have in mind. However, the D4S is 32 to 39 mm in diameter, and I’m hoping for a much smaller light which is more like 21 mm — basically as small as possible with an unprotected 18650 cell. Also, I would blend its beam a little more because the edges of the D4S hotspot are a bit sharp.

I suggested E17A / E21A because they usually make the most beautiful beam. However, there are other nice options too. I particularly like Nichia 219B, XP-L HI, and XHP35 HI. These are all good at keeping a consistent color throughout the entire beam… unlike rainbow beam LEDs like XP-G3 and XHP50.2.


Geez. How cruel of you to make me want a thought up flashlight. Who do we have to petition to make it happen?
Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12912
Location: LI NY

Ok, think I've been hit over the head enough. Sounds all good, but not for me. For a compact single LED, I'd rather have decent throw with decent tint. The triple and quads have enough throw and flood mix for me in a compact size.

I do agree the XPL HI's have one of the best even tints over the beam pattern - Hank's V2 5D is my favorite, and even the V4 3C isn't bad for a "C" tint for a bit more output. Wish he had a V3 4D to fill the gap - it seems to be MIA...

 

oweban
oweban's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 02/12/2019 - 06:34
Posts: 1027
Location: Sydney AU

+1 on 4A or 4D too!

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 1230
Location: MN
Tom E wrote:

Ok, think I’ve been hit over the head enough. Sounds all good, but not for me. For a compact single LED, I’d rather have decent throw with decent tint. The triple and quads have enough throw and flood mix for me in a compact size.


I do agree the XPL HI’s have one of the best even tints over the beam pattern – Hank’s V2 5D is my favorite, and even the V4 3C isn’t bad for a “C” tint for a bit more output. Wish he had a V3 4D to fill the gap – it seems to be MIA


 

The advantage to having a higher cd/lm than the Carclo 3x and 4x can offer is that you can reach out to longer distances for MUCH longer before stepdowns, and don’t have to set the output to high to see to any given distance for that matter.

Pages