Yezl Y3 - a picture breakdown

345 posts / 0 new
Last post
freeme
freeme's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 32 min ago
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 22:00
Posts: 10785

Thanks for answering my questions. It really going to save me a lot of time. I will grab one Yezl before GB ends. Together with the 26mm Maxtoch mcpcb.

Tom E wrote:

freeme wrote:

Regarding the SMD sense resistor mod. Do I solder a R100 over each resistor (R180 & R150) or completely replacing them with R100?

Where is the best place to buy R100 resistor? I only find these at FT. Are they the of same kind? 

Add the R100 to the top of either existing R180 or R150. I used an 0805 size one to match the existing ones, not 1206's as linked. Post #425 here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/33066. Not sure if I got mine from DigiKey or FT - got lots of them from both sources.

These should work/fit: http://www.fasttech.com/products/1002/10003143/1234405-0805-01r-smd-precision-resistors-100-piece

Resistor calc here: http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/smdcalc.php (R100 is same as R10)

 

 

 

1thedeals.comyoutubeAstroluxNealsgadgetsolight

nofearek9
nofearek9's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/08/2012 - 08:46
Posts: 1350
Location: Cyprus

what about if we short the one resistor on top of it ,will we gain anything ?

grantman321
grantman321's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 12 months ago
Joined: 06/02/2014 - 14:10
Posts: 215
Location: North Carolina

I added an R100 (digikey part #408-1556-1-ND) on top of the R150 and only saw a 0.6A rise in current (measured at both emitter and tailcap). My DMM is a pretty cheap one, but it seems to measure Qlites dead on 3.00-3.05A depending on the light. The Y3 went from 2.00ish to 2.60ish at the tail before/after on one EVVA unprotected 26650 from MTN. Also compared it with another Y3 that’s dedomed but otherwise stock that measured 2.00 or so at the tail (both on fully charged EVVA 26650s). Should I add more resistors? Or add to the R180 instead of the R150? I’m pretty well ignorant about electrical engineering — just good at following the lead of the awesome members on here and halfway decent at soldering. Hoping to get the current situation figured out before throwing an XM-L2 in one and an MT-G2 in the other both reflowed on 26mm maxtoch mcpcbs. Not aiming for insane numbers… just shooting for something between 3.5A and 4.5A at the emitter on both lights.

Any help appreciated.

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

The 2 resistors are in parallel, so it doesn't matter which you add a piggyback resistor to. Not sure bout adding more resistors... Sure seems like the boost should have been greater... An R100 should bump the power by about 75-80% or so, I'm thinking, and you are only seeing a 30% bump... Oh boy.

willie
willie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 9 hours ago
Joined: 08/16/2011 - 14:19
Posts: 827
Location: Houston

Would using two or three batteries make any difference with the R100 modification?

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Post #425 here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/33066 -- after adding an R100, I measured 4.6A at the tail for an MT-G2 modded Y3, so, maybe does make a difference? Weird... Sorry, wish I had time to test on a XM-L2 Y3...

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

Anyone used one of the 26mm maxtoch mcpcbs? Is it an easy replacement?

RaceR86
RaceR86's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 02/22/2012 - 08:32
Posts: 3777
Location: Norway

Werner wrote:
Anyone used one of the 26mm maxtoch mcpcbs? Is it an easy replacement?

I have not put my light together with one. The maxtoch mcpcb is 0,5mm thinner compared to stock. Not sure if that makes a difference. The place you solder the wires does not touch the reflector, so that is good. If you want to use thick wires you might want to do some very minor trimming to the mcpcb were the wires come through.

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

locusto03
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 34 min ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 01:35
Posts: 303

Werner wrote:
Anyone used one of the 26mm maxtoch mcpcbs? Is it an easy replacement?

 

I plan to, but haven't even taken mine apart yet. I just realized that the reflector is so loose it literally rotates when I lightly flick the flashlight (I can hear it spinning). Need to work on raising the entire shelf before fitting the MaxToch mcpcb. Other than the height issue, the diameter seems to be a direct swap. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Ummm - 3 things with the LED/MCPCB <-> reflector height:

  1. stock it's not tight, apparently (don't think my original WallBuys unit had this?)
  2. replacing or sanding down the LED alignment piece will cause more loss of height
  3. replacing the MCPCB will cause more loss of height

So, you need to take all 3 issues into account for planning a height boost Smile. Don't forget possible lens replacement, maybe different thickness...

locusto03
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 34 min ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 01:35
Posts: 303

^ Thanks for pointing out the lens thickness. I got the AR lens from CNQG. I haven't compared the thickness, but it's probably thinner than stock and loosened things up in my unit.

 

I initially looked around for a replacement o-ring, but I wasn't able to find anything in the budget-friendly realm.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

grantman321 wrote:
I added an R100 (digikey part #408-1556-1-ND) on top of the R150 and only saw a 0.6A rise in current (measured at both emitter and tailcap). My DMM is a pretty cheap one, but it seems to measure Qlites dead on 3.00-3.05A depending on the light. The Y3 went from 2.00ish to 2.60ish at the tail before/after on one EVVA unprotected 26650 from MTN. Also compared it with another Y3 that's dedomed but otherwise stock that measured 2.00 or so at the tail (both on fully charged EVVA 26650s). Should I add more resistors? Or add to the R180 instead of the R150? I'm pretty well ignorant about electrical engineering -- just good at following the lead of the awesome members on here and halfway decent at soldering. Hoping to get the current situation figured out before throwing an XM-L2 in one and an MT-G2 in the other both reflowed on 26mm maxtoch mcpcbs. Not aiming for insane numbers... just shooting for something between 3.5A and 4.5A at the emitter on both lights. Any help appreciated.

I took apart my MT-G2 modded Y3 that has the R100 added (removed the MT-G2), and measured 3.55A to 3.60A with an XM-L2 and one EVVA 26650 unprotected cell. I then put in a fresh Efest 35A 186650 and measured just over 4.0A. So, I can't explain the results you got. I would highly suspect your DMM - are you using the stock leads? I use 14 AWG custom wire leads and need them to measure high amps. Please post any updates and details on your DMM and DMM wires.

grantman321
grantman321's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 12 months ago
Joined: 06/02/2014 - 14:10
Posts: 215
Location: North Carolina

This is the DMM I’m using. Been measuring driver currents up to 4.5A reliably for the last 6 mo. It’s not modified – haven’t built any lights drawing more than 6ish amps, so figured I’d get around to beefing it up with thicker leads when my flashaholism guided me to more power.

It is possible that I could have fried the R150 when I added the R100 on top of it, I suppose. But wouldn’t the current have gone down before/after if that were the case?

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

grantman321
grantman321's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 12 months ago
Joined: 06/02/2014 - 14:10
Posts: 215
Location: North Carolina

Y3 #1 – Stock driver, stock driver spring, dedomed stock LED on stock mcpcb, one fresh EVVA 26650 (unprotected): 2.25-2.30A

Y3 #2 – R100 added over R150, stock driver spring, stock LED, 22ga LED leads, one fresh EVVA 26650 (unprotected): 2.60-2.65A

Both Y3’s from the cnqualitygoods GB.

And for reference…

Convoy S2+ – 3.04A Qlite flashed with NLITE (8×7135’s), stock springs, solid copper spacer soldered to brass pill, 3-up dedomed XP-L V5 2As on noctigon, 22ga LED leads, fresh NCR18650PF (protected): 3.05-3.10A

I was beginning to think it was a faulty DMM for sure… now I have no idea what to think. Could there be THAT much resistance in the driver spring or did I draw two unlucky straws with the drivers in my Y3’s?

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

MRsDNF
MRsDNF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: 12/22/2011 - 21:18
Posts: 13473
Location: A light beam away from the missus in the land of Aus.

It could well be the battery not able to deliver the current required. I received two brand name 26650s awhile ago and one of the batteries performs poorly in current tests but has the correct capacity under light loads. The other battery in comparison performs as expected.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

grantman321
grantman321's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 12 months ago
Joined: 06/02/2014 - 14:10
Posts: 215
Location: North Carolina

The AR from the CNQG BG is indeed thinner — mine rattles while the regular glass lens does not. Anyone know if the maxtoch mcpcbs are thicker than the standard mcpcb? It would sure be mighty helpful if they are. Otherwise I guess I’ll either shim or find a thicker o-ring somewhere.

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

grantman321
grantman321's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 12 months ago
Joined: 06/02/2014 - 14:10
Posts: 215
Location: North Carolina
MRsDNF wrote:

It could well be the battery not able to deliver the current required. I received two brand name 26650s awhile ago and one of the batteries performs poorly in current tests but has the correct capacity under light loads. The other battery in comparison performs as expected.

Both came from MTN. That would be a really huge bummer, but it would explain a lower-current-than-expected problem I’m having with an Ultrafire F13 I modded with the 22mm 16×7135 linear driver. Can’t remember exactly what I measured it at… but I think it was in the 3-4A range. I figured the DMM was acting up – got pretty hot on high.

Edit – I’ll test the Y3’s with a pair of unprotected NCR18650PFs in the morning. If I can make it that long — awfully tempted to get out of bed to see if that’s the issue. Gonna suck if the $35+ I spent on 3 of those 26650’s was wasted.

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Wow - never saw a stock DMM measure high amps, like over 3A reliably, even a Fluke, but you may have a winner there but I definitely would not trust that setup for regular use. I've seen this before - guys thinking their stock leads work ok, and once they get heavy leads, their eyes open. If they are really good (doubtful), then could be other things as mentioned - cell, bad resistor, etc., or something different about your driver vs. mine. A light meter is always a nice way to verify things to see relative effects.

There are multiple EVVA unprotected 26650 Mtn sells - which exact one? If it's the 5200, it's pretty low performing compared to the re-labeled KK 4000. I'm staying away from those 5200's. The 26700 cell is even higher capacity and high performing (mine measured at 5300-5400+) - win/win, and fits the Y3's that I have.

I measured the CNQ AR vs. stock lens last night - AR is slightly less in diameter, maybe by .05 mm, close...

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

Definitely DMM stock leads are the problem.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Dunno - I'm not saying it's impossible that DMM w/leads would work well, just very hard to believe. Thought we've been down this road many times before, and it always (like 100% of the time) ends to find out the stock DMM leads are N.G. - may seem to work on some setups/lights, but not all - after many posts back and forth and time spent, turns out to be poor high resistance leads...

Again, I got 3 DMM's including a Fluke, and all stock leads and extra leads I've bought fail to measure high amps reliably.

Ohhh - also, it's important what high amp setup youv'e been measuring ok in the past. if it's more than one cell in series, totally different animal. If you say voltage was in the range of 3.0 - 4.0, then that's different.

ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7935
Location: SC

grantman321 wrote:

Y3 #1 – Stock driver, stock driver spring, dedomed stock LED on stock mcpcb, one fresh EVVA 26650 (unprotected): 2.25-2.30A

Y3 #2 – R100 added over R150, stock driver spring, stock LED, 22ga LED leads, one fresh EVVA 26650 (unprotected): 2.60-2.65A

Both Y3’s from the cnqualitygoods GB.

And for reference…

Convoy S2+ – 3.04A Qlite flashed with NLITE (8×7135’s), stock springs, solid copper spacer soldered to brass pill, 3-up dedomed XP-L V5 2As on noctigon, 22ga LED leads, fresh NCR18650PF (protected): 3.05-3.10A

I was beginning to think it was a faulty DMM for sure… now I have no idea what to think. Could there be THAT much resistance in the driver spring or did I draw two unlucky straws with the drivers in my Y3’s?

 

Hi grantman321.  I'm assuming those are tailcap measurements and that the Y3 driver is a buck driver.  It's pretty normal for buck drivers to deliver less current with one cell.  I think it's because they typically require more overhead voltage (Vdo).  So less voltage is available to drive the emitter and therefore the emitters allows less current to flow.  Buck drivers work best with 2 or more cells in series. 

I don't have time to read all the Y3 threads.  Has anyone else reported tail current on 1 cell with the stock driver?

grantman321
grantman321's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 12 months ago
Joined: 06/02/2014 - 14:10
Posts: 215
Location: North Carolina

Well, I tested the lights over again with unprotected NCR18650PFs and got similar results – and then again with another unprotected EVVA 5200mAh 26650 that I ordered separately from the first two. Still getting roughly the same results for each light with a variation of about +/- 200mA between different batteries.

I’m not arguing at all that my DMM leads aren’t the issue — I assumed when I bought a $20 DMM that it wouldn’t be perfectly accurate and reliable out of the box — accurate enough for rough estimates when testing mods was all I was shooting for there.

So as of now, I have no reason to believe the batteries are the issue — gotta be either the DMM or something screwy with the drivers in the Y3’s I got. Still not quite understanding how it could measure some single-cell lights with relatively accurate results and others way off from expected. All of the batteries tested were between 4.10 and 4.18V resting, and all tested in the same manner, with the amps I reported being a rough estimate of the average after it settles down over a few seconds.

I don’t think I’ve ever actually tested a multiple cell light with this DMM before. I only have one two cell light that I use regularly (a modified Convoy C8 with a zener’d Qlite +4×7135s), and I know roughly what the current on that light ought to be, and the light works great so I’ve never even bothered to test it.

Bottom line… I need to figure out how to get this DMM set up right and then go from there. Are there any writeups on BLF about modifying budget DMMs for better accuracy?

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

The leads have resistance and resistance cause a voltage drop if you measure current. This dropped voltage is “stolen” and less voltage gives different current.
How the lower voltage behave on a driver depends on the driver.
The stock y3 behaves like that:
4.2V gives 2.3A
4V gives 2.4A
3.8 gives 2.6A
3.5V gives 2A

It’s regulated to some point(around3.7V) and after that power drops.

I just plugged it to a power supply and noted the display current and voltage which is not absolute accurate but enough to enlighten all the differences in tail amps a bit.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

I bought 14 AWG silicone multi-strand high temp wire and directly soldered them into bare DMM connectors. On the other ends, I strip off bout 1/2 inch then solder the exposed ends up so it's stiff and chunky. The 14 AWG silicone is 12" long, nice and flexible, easy to work with, but not too long - again, longer it is the more the resistance. I bought the wire here: http://www.buddyrc.com/black-14awg-silicone-wire.html and red, cheap, good quality -- probably best deal around actually on wire at BuddyRC.

For the connectors, dunno - I got mine @work, but you could buy a spare set of leads cheap ($3 - $7 eBay, FastTech, etc.) and cut off the wires.

This is a sweet cheap DMM I have: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10002748/1483104-uni-t-ut33d-1-9-lcd-palm-size-digital-multimeter, but I leave it on and kill the battery all the time. So I bought this one: http://www.fasttech.com/products/1004/10002748/1204400 with a battery saver, and 20A capable Wink.

 

aoeu
aoeu's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 21 hours ago
Joined: 02/16/2014 - 04:44
Posts: 793
Location: Sydney, Australia

Well I made a few mistakes with the Y3. Wanted to put in a MTG2. First mistake was buying protected batteries for it, well they don’t fit at all but enough to get power through. Can only screw it up 50%. Once I got everything together the beam was just too tight for my liking, I should’ve known this though based on everyone else’s comments. I did double up a R100 like the rest of you. Output was good but it produces too much heat too quickly to be something I want to carry around. I still prefer my older resistor-modded TR3T6 which floods more and is brighter to my eyes.

Anyway took the G2 right out and put the XML back in. Back on the shelf for that light probably!

Oh and instead of shimming the G2 up, I ground down the head of the light at the base. This allowed me to screw the pill further into the body and press up against the reflector, eliminating rattle and pressing the MCPCB against the aluminum.

ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7935
Location: SC

grantman321 wrote:

. . . Bottom line… I need to figure out how to get this DMM set up right and then go from there. Are there any writeups on BLF about modifying budget DMMs for better accuracy?

I think we cross posted.  Did you see my post 141.  Your measurements are in line with Werner's measurements using a power supply (Post 143).

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

ImA4Wheelr wrote:

grantman321 wrote:

. . . Bottom line… I need to figure out how to get this DMM set up right and then go from there. Are there any writeups on BLF about modifying budget DMMs for better accuracy?

I think we cross posted.  Did you see my post 141.  Your measurements are in line with Werner's measurements using a power supply (Post 143).

But in my post #132 I said I measured 3.55A to 4.0A with the R100 resistor added (just like grantman321's Y3) - Werner's is with no resistor mod. There is still a difference in amps measured between his R100 modded Y3 and my R100 modded Y3.

grantman321
grantman321's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 12 months ago
Joined: 06/02/2014 - 14:10
Posts: 215
Location: North Carolina

@ImA4Wheelr, Werner & Tom E — Thank you for the replies! So basically it seems to be reading somewhat correctly, and the R100 doesn’t have much effect when running the light on just one cell? I’ll desolder an LED lead on each one and see what the current is at the emitter with two cells in series. My end goal with these is to have one with an MT-G2 and one with an XM-L2, both on 26mm maxtoch mcpcbs putting out in the neighborhood of 4-5A on high. I’d prefer to run the XM-L2 on one cell, but if two is what it takes, so be it. I went ahead and grabbed two extension tubes when I got the lights during the GB anyway. What got me to the point I’m at now is I’m trying to get the driver as close to where I want as I can before going whole-hog and reflowing emitters and all that. Haven’t even braided the springs yet.

Still definitely going to solder in beefier leads in the DMM, it’s something I figured I’d need to do eventually and now seems like as good of a time as any. Y’all reckon a sizeable local RC/hobby shop would stock wires like that (high temp, low enough gauge)? My understanding of electronics is just marginally decent enough to mod lights with a small degree of competency — I hadn’t even considered the DMM leads would cause a voltage drop which would lead to different readings… I figured they were primarily limiting current.

@aoeu — the MT-G2 wasn’t floody enough?? I find it hard to believe it’d be less than twice as floody as a Y3 with an XM-L2. I’m kinda hoping for a decent balance between throw/flood with my eventual MT-G2 Y3. The Convoy C8 I’ve built with an MT-G2 is mostly all flood… doesn’t throw hardly at all compared to a dedomed XM-L2 in a C8. Hoping the much-larger Y3 reflector will be big enough to give it a decent balance with the bigger emitter.

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

grantman321
grantman321's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 12 months ago
Joined: 06/02/2014 - 14:10
Posts: 215
Location: North Carolina
Tom E wrote:

ImA4Wheelr wrote:

grantman321 wrote:

. . . Bottom line… I need to figure out how to get this DMM set up right and then go from there. Are there any writeups on BLF about modifying budget DMMs for better accuracy?

I think we cross posted.  Did you see my post 141.  Your measurements are in line with Werner’s measurements using a power supply (Post 143).

But in my post #132 I said I measured 3.55A to 4.0A with the R100 resistor added (just like grantman321’s Y3) - Werner’s is with no resistor mod. There is still a difference in amps measured between his R100 modded Y3 and my R100 modded Y3.

Were you measuring with two cells or one?

“We are all worms, but I believe that I am a glow-worm.” – Winston Churchill

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

aoeu - I believe the tube extensions are not sized correctly. With the stock light, a 26700 cell fits fine. With 1 extension, things get tight (maybe too tight) for 2 protected cells. With 2 extensions, 3 unprotected get very tight. Ugh.... You can see as you add extensions and cells, the last cell sticks further and further out of the end... This is sort of a disaster really for use of the extensions. Suppose you can mod something somhow to get some space back...

Edit: I'll have to look at that head base - bout grinding it down. Nice tip!

gman - I used one cell, clearly stated in post #132 ("one" and "a"), so we are still getting different results. Ohhh - my EVVA unprotected is a 4000 mAh (good re-labeled KK).

For the MaxToch 26 - I didn't finish it yet, but sized it up for the Y3 I'm working on, I'll have to re-drill one LED wire hole (poor positioning in the stock light) and possibly add a copper spacer to make up vertical space. I'll be modding the plastic alignment piece by cutting it down, then sanding the bottom to make it much thinner - it's way too thick now, keeping the LED further out of the reflector than it should be. It looks like the wires will clear the reflector bottom, so if the alignment piece is filed down, you can really get a nice positioned LED out of it -- meaning more inside the reflector.

 

Pages