OSRAM KW CSLNM1.TG – 1mm2 Throw King!

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luminarium iaculator
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OSRAM KW CSLNM1.TG – 1mm2 Throw King!

Led4Power brought us this interesting emitter and I had opportunity to test this led in direct comparison with good old XP-G2 S4 2B dedomed.

Used same host(uniquefire 1503, 50mm aspherics with selected lenses), same driver(Djozz FET driver), same 18650 cell. Testing equipment uni-t clamp meter and uni-t lux meter.

Test subject Uniquefire 1503 fitted with XP G2 S4 2B has 255kcd performance. 950FC or 10225Lux at 5 meters.

Mine test started with low current 4.35V cell LG18650BD1 and I roughly got this results:
4.2V 5.35 A 1180FC, 4.1V 5 A 1150FC, 4.0V 4.8A 1150 FC, 3.9V 4.6A 1150 FC, 3.8V 4.5A 1150FC, 3.7V 4.1A 1100FC, 3.6V 3.8A 1050FC, 3.5V 3.3A 950 FC with new OSRAM KW CSLNM1.TG. It equals performance of the best G2 at very low current draw which means it will kill in lux performance any XP(E2 or G2) based emitter!

Now torture test. Torture for this emitter will be any cell in Samsung 30Q rang or better if used in FET DD setup which of course will pull a lot of current. So in mine test emitter survived over 7A of current draw for more than 3 minutes(for couple of times). After cool-down it did not loose initial properties(performance remained the same) which implies that emitter is very robust. This were mine results. I also found that mine test subject had best performance at around 5.8-6A (1200FC)

So in mine test OSRAM KW CSLNM1.TG over-performs old G2 significantly in everything except die size This small emitter is like Viagra. It does not falls in performance that easy Evil

My advice for such single cell FET DD setup is that you use low current cell. Sanyo GA and mentioned LGBD1 will work OK but there are plenty of others that could work without harming emitter.

Crucial things could be reflowing: Use as thinner layer of solder paste as possible (needle syringe application) since on this emitter it is very hard to push excess solder off.

Or you could just buy plug and play version on L4P DTP boards. So you can pick 20mm or 16mm Led4Power uses lead free solder in re-flow process which according to him should have better properties than solder paste.

Led4Power tested it:

led4power wrote:

Test results:



 


I calculated/estimated lumens from my lux numbers and datasheet bin specification.


Yellow marked lumens calculation are based on old black flat measurements at 1A as reference (made by koef3 I think), non-marked lumens are based on ~middle of bin lumen number at 1A from datasheet (330lm, actual middle is 335lm).


 


 

Djozz tested it:

djozz wrote:
My son and and a friend who was coming to play at our place had way too much energy so I kicked them onto the streets to play in the playground a few streets away. So that freed some time for the led test.

Note that I used my standard test method with all the added disclaimers about how it is done. Especially note that I keep using the djozz-lumen although I know that it is between 7% and 10% too high, I do this to be consistent, so results can be compared to all my earlier led tests.

I used a DTP 16mm led4power board for reflow because those pads matched the smaller Oslon pads of the led just a bit better than a Noctigon. And indeed the reflow went easy.

As I noticed before my maximum is at a lower current than other testers, the cooling seems less well done in my set-up. Part of it may be that I usually apply a generous amount of solder during the reflow, a bit more than the minimum needed (with Oslon-sized leds on 3535 boards, excess solder can not be squeezed out by tapping on the led). This results in a somewhat (not much though) thicker solder layer that may add to a slightly higher thermal insulation of the led.

I stopped the test at 7A. The led emitted angry blue light then, but I kept it 2 minutes at 7A to see if it could handle it, and it did. Afterwards I turned the current down to 4A and kept it there for half an hour, the output was only 1% less than the initially measured output at 4A, so the led seemed to have handled the 7A maltreatment with no problem.

Led4Power told that this variations can happen because of excess solder during reflow process:

led4power wrote:

@djozz,


thermal path definitely  looks not optimal, I got peak at 5.75Amps. Excess solder could cause that when power density is high like with this LED. Also, I’m using lead-free solder which has a little bit better thermal conductivity.


 

We already have builds with that emitter:

LichtAn wrote:
Also posting this here, so it may reach more people that are interested.

I just put the new OBF successor in my BLF GT Mini. The max I measured was 282k cd. But with a protected battery at 4.1V the current is already at 6A at the tailcap. I’ll see if I modify the firmware to reduce the max output to 80% PWM. But the LED scaled all the way up to 100%, so I’m wondering what the actual limit is.

Even at 3.65V battery resting voltage, I get 260k cd. So it was probably overdriven a lot.

Beam looks like this. Ideally the 2 rays limiting the hotspot should be parallel right?

ZozzV6 wrote:
Yesterday the new Osram CSLNM1.TG leds arrived from led4power. Putted in one to my modded Convoy S8 and one into my GT mini. Some pics and beamshots:

Convoy S8, S2+ SMO reflector, AR lens, 3,15A. 9×7135. It makes 573 lumens and 30800 cd.

It is slightly smaller than XP leds

GT mini with Emisar D1S reflector. You can see the beam thinner as going away from light so it need to raise the reflector a bit. Making 219000 cd with unfocused reflector and GA cell to not overdrive the led.

djozz wrote:
Some more checks on the BLF D80 with KW CSLNM1-TG led. (Should this led get a dedicated thread btw?)

First, I was not happy with the quite random centering that twisting a 3535 centerpiece provides, so I modded the centerpiece: with a scalpel I cut new corners 45 degrees from the original corners, fixing the 3030-sized led much better. So the flashlight has two centerpieces, one locked around the other, both sanded very thin at the underside for exact focus, now also exact centered.

With the led perfectly centered in 3 dimensions the beam was superb.

Now I measured throw again, first on the almost full 30Q (4.08V): 140 kcd (as I measured before), then let the light run for half an hour (it got hot, I estimate 70 degrees! A biscotti driver has no thermal stepdown, and a 3.9 amp flashlight produces some 15W of heat), the battery was now 3.59 V, so wel over half empty. Measured throw again and still got 125 kcd.

I did the same test with the same battery on a C8 with dedomed XP-G2 S4 2B. Started at 4.08 V with 141 kcd, and with the cell at 3.59 V I measured 90 kcd.

So the low voltage combined with the much needed current regulation of the biscotti driver makes the output and throw of a flashlight with the new Osram led more constant than a light with a direct driven S4 2B.

Plus the current is a bit lower for the same throw.

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

Old-Lumens

Edited by: sb56637 on 11/06/2018 - 06:55
nofearek9
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nice little monster ,thanks for the review.
time to rebuild some flashlights.

F.i.l.a.s
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Thanks for summary about this new interesting led ;).

I plan to do some mods with “white flat” as well, post some pictures later here.

-X3-
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I bought 3 pieces, I plan to put one in my Olight R20 to make a pocket thrower.
Another one will go in my Amutorch JM70 (TA FET driver) which has a sliced SST20 ATM.
The last one ? Don’t know yet… aspheric maybe ? My B158B ? I’ll see…

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tvizk
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Nice! I have this on the way with a Convoy L2 host and plan to put that together. I think it should have some pretty crazy throw with that combo.

EasyB
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Looks like a good LED, but it seems like it doesn’t beat the dedomed XPG2 by much in terms of throw in the examples above. E.g. the D80 and S8. I recently measured a dedomed XPG2 (new style) in an S2+ smooth reflector at 29kcd.

Is this an issue of improper focus or reflector imperfections or over/under driving? What are people’s understanding of this?

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I’ve ordered 5, let’s see how long it takes them to arrive…

nottawhackjob
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Ok so it’s a more efficient LED butt its reflowing fickleness and subsequent performance variation makes me a bit hesitant that ultimately it’s worth the bother to take out all my XPG2 S4 2B’s. I just don’t run my flashes for long periods of time enough to really gain from the runtime gains plus what appears to be not that much of a lumen/lux boost.

I mean for the hassles involved I might as well wait for LEP’s to go modder mainstream – as in cheap and prevalent.

As for new hosts sure why not give it a go butt I’m not expecting my socks to get blown off here either. I’ll prolly wait till a GB comes along with one in it too.

Cool

Don’t forget to turn off the lights. Flashlights work better that way.

mrheosuper
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i think we can make a group buy for this led. This led will attract a lot of attention

Forgot my pen

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I’d rather see a GB for Boost HX. Or the 2mm² white flat.

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Came home today from 2 weeks in France, got 3 of these LEDs in the mail. Smile

Q

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Just put one in a cometa. Will post results when I have dependable measurements.


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Looks good! Let us know when you’ve got numbers.

Always remember SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14

 

My 3535 give away

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Just ordered 4 pieces. Sure it will be a while before I see them. Looks interesting and can’t wait to experiment with them.

DavidEF
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Geuzzz wrote:
ShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

-X3-
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Got my 3 samples…let’s mod !

"Hey -X3-, do you have a flashlight ?"   "-X3-, can I borrow one of your flashlights ?" 

My Flashlight public album (mods, emitter swaps, eye candy)

My reviews channel (French language, Olight, Thorfire, Sofirn, Lumintop : 60+ lights tested)

My personal channel (including Olight SR mini, S1, S2, S1A and S-mini disassembly)

M4DM4X blog, saves you $$$ 

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Thanks for starting this thread and the comprehensive summary in the OP!

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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Geuzz, can’t wait to hear more about your Cometa mod. I read it is hard to focus it in the Cometa. Did you have any issues focusing it?

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Ok. I went into my cold shed for you guys and have some measurements.
I think I usually measure a bit lower than others around here and I measured some lights again to have a good(ish) reference.

I have a almost clear image of the die, but I feel it can be a tiny bit better focused.

I did not measure ampdraw, but I got best results using an old protected keeppower 18650. With better cells I got worse results. So it is indeed better to keep the amps down a bit.

D1s stock (5d) 115kcd
Souponfire thrower, fet dedomed xm-l2 205kcd
Cometa osram throw king 315kcd

djozz
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That is a pretty good result Geuzz, close to the B158 with dedomed XP-G2 but with a smaller lens.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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I will put one soon in my B158B.

Geuzzz
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ZozzV6 wrote:
I will put one soon in my B158B.

Nice. I still have a b158 laying around, maybe I’ll order some more osrams depending on your results.

At least I have believe in your numbers not being to high also.

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With dedomed XP-G2 now it is making 300 kcd

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Geuzzz wrote:
Just put one in a cometa. Will post results when I have dependable measurements.


Did you give it hell with the DD driver??

Q

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Jerommel wrote:
Did you give it hell with the DD driver??
From his post #19:
Geuzzz wrote:
I did not measure ampdraw, but I got best results using an old protected keeppower 18650. With better cells I got worse results. So it is indeed better to keep the amps down a bit.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

Jerommel
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Thanks, i missed that. Thumbs Up

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Seems many of you is having problems overdriving this emitter with unregulated shite drivers. Bad stuff. Let me suggest you grabbing some of led4power's adjustable linear drivers or a more modest but fully current adjustable LD-25 (new version tested by HKJ), available at FastTech or Simon's store.

 

Party 

djozz
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I’m a bit surprised that you are not mentioning the most obvious choice: the good old 8×7135 lineair driver (original 105C or Convoy’s biscotti version), add chips to taste. (just used one with 12 chips for my “White Flat” D80 build)

I still do not see the crusade that some people have on unregulated drivers, for many flashlights they work fabulously and are my first choice, and getting less light while the battery is drained is really not the end of the world (some people even appreciate that).

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

Jerommel
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Well, crucade… It’s DD that’s the hype i.m.o.
Yeah, they’re cheap to manufacture and they get you big outputs, but that only lasts a very short while.
Who would appreciate that? And why?
You often can’t even optimize the electrical path or else the current gets too high.
With single emitters with low Vf this means undermining the electrical path (lower discharge battery, crappy springs and thin wires) which means you COULD have full output during half the charge or more, but you don’t…
The LD25 is not (much) more expensive than an Astrolux DD driver, is it?
You can resistor mod it to 4 Amperes if you want (maybe more?).
Yeah, it’s only 3 modes, and the strobe is not very hidden (double tap), but it’s CC regulated and without PWM. Thumbs Up
7135 drivers suffer from considerable Voltage drop, unfortunately…
I forget, but i think it’s minimum 0.2 Volts you lose in a 7135.
The often audible PWM can be annoying too.

Q

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djozz wrote:

I still do not see the crusade that some people have on unregulated drivers, …

I do not really have a crusade against, but let me point out that at least some of you are living on a draw-backed technology mostly because of the available software for a few ATtiny controllers + direct MOSFET drive + 7135s. The drawbacks I am speaking of is lack of regulation and pulse width modulated lower modes.

Lack of regulation means the user needs to carefully consider and adjust lots of parameters to avoid overdriving emitters or just running them past their optimal points. This can mean tuning resistances for the whole chain of parts inside a flashlight.

PWM in lower modes may not be an issue, but it can be. And while MOSFETs can cope well with high frequency PWM, 7135s do not and their regulation goes out of whack. PWM and video filming is also a no-go.

Since I do not require the boons of ToyKeeper's software I opt for regulated linear or fully regulated buck/boost peace of mind drivers.

 

Cheers Smile 

everydaysurvivalgear
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Okay so my older Cometa with a Dedomed XPG2 does around 330kcd and my numbers always read heaps lower than every one else. I am not sure what bin the XPG2 because i bought it in the beginning of 2016 from Cutter on a Noctigon board.

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