OSRAM KW CSLNM1.TG (1mm2) & Osram KW CSLPM1.TG (2mm2)

730 posts / 0 new
Last post
The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 28 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1365
Location: Germany

Thanks a lot for these two tests Enderman, especially the one with the small collar!!! The latter is very relevant to me as I plan on having a small light with this configuration at some point in the future.
I have all the needed parts except for the body of the light. It will be a compact light that showcases what is possible with LEDs. It will also look cool because there will be a clear cylinder around the collar instead of metal.

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5093
Location: Germany
The_Driver wrote:
Thanks a lot for these two tests Enderman, especially the one with the small collar!!! The latter is very relevant to me as I plan on having a small light with this configuration at some point in the future.

so 1mm2 with collar is as good as LEP?
but with considerable more lumens

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 28 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1365
Location: Germany
Lexel wrote:
The_Driver wrote:
Thanks a lot for these two tests Enderman, especially the one with the small collar!!! The latter is very relevant to me as I plan on having a small light with this configuration at some point in the future.

so 1mm2 with collar is as good as LEP?
but with considerable more lumens

Well not quite. It’s as good as small LEP modules used in commercial flashlights. Much higher Luminance values have been achieved with LEP in the lab.

The collar is also a few cm wide. LEP lights can be made slimmer.

luminarium iaculator
luminarium iaculator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 14 hours 3 min ago
Joined: 07/07/2013 - 09:09
Posts: 2276
Location: X
The_Driver wrote:
Thanks a lot for these two tests Enderman, especially the one with the small collar!!! The latter is very relevant to me as I plan on having a small light with this configuration at some point in the future. I have all the needed parts except for the body of the light. It will be a compact light that showcases what is possible with LEDs. It will also look cool because there will be a clear cylinder around the collar instead of metal.

Jaxman?

Modding is making something how you want it to be, not how it comes stock...

Old-Lumens

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 28 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1365
Location: Germany
luminarium iaculator wrote:
The_Driver wrote:
Thanks a lot for these two tests Enderman, especially the one with the small collar!!! The latter is very relevant to me as I plan on having a small light with this configuration at some point in the future. I have all the needed parts except for the body of the light. It will be a compact light that showcases what is possible with LEDs. It will also look cool because there will be a clear cylinder around the collar instead of metal.

Jaxman?

No, it doesn’t need to be focusable. Something simple where the head has the right diameter and can be removed without removing the LED. Probably a 1× 18650 host.

Jerommel
Jerommel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 13:18
Posts: 5721
Location: the Hague, Netherlands

Enderman wrote:
Did another test, this time with a small RLT collar.

The LED reached its peak sooner, at about 5.3A instead of 5.6, likely due to the additional heating of the die.
About a 2x improvement from the small collar.

Both graphs compared:


Wow!

So sad i missed that collar deal a year ago or so…

2Q19

polarweis
polarweis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 16 min ago
Joined: 05/31/2017 - 17:05
Posts: 348

How much lumen would one get with 1mm white flat at 8×7135 ? im thinking of s2+ with this led for a sort of tube thrower..

"It wouldn’t be so bright if there wasn’t a shadow every once in a while." - Jason Mraz

blueb8llz
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 49 min ago
Joined: 06/02/2012 - 01:16
Posts: 2930
Location: California

djozz wrote:
Enderman wrote:
Th558 wrote:
So is the XPL HI dead now?

For intensity yeah.
It does have higher efficiency and lower colour temperatures though for people that want that.

I changed the 2mm2 white flat (so not the throwier 1mm2 version that has a bit too low output I think for this light) in my mini-GT for a dedomed XP-G2 3D because of the much better tint, I do not like the very cool tint. It costed me just 15kcd.

The XP-L Hi comes in many tints but I was unfortunate to never have found a tint that was really great.

Only a loss of 15kcd? How about lumen loss? 500 lumens? Did you ever get s chance to put a 1mm flat in the same light? How much more kcd did you get?

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 17 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3928
Location: Vancouver, Canada

The_Driver wrote:
Thanks a lot for these two tests Enderman, especially the one with the small collar!!! The latter is very relevant to me as I plan on having a small light with this configuration at some point in the future.
I have all the needed parts except for the body of the light. It will be a compact light that showcases what is possible with LEDs. It will also look cool because there will be a clear cylinder around the collar instead of metal.

You’re welcome Smile
Looking forward to see what you build!

Lexel wrote:

so 1mm2 with collar is as good as LEP?
but with considerable more lumens

Yeah, with a collar it is significantly more intense than the LEPs found in retail lights like the L2K, W10, W3.
Even without collar it comes pretty close to LEP performance.
But the LEPs in those retail lights are much less than theoretical maximum for an LEP.
Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 17 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3928
Location: Vancouver, Canada

polarweis wrote:
How much lumen would one get with 1mm white flat at 8×7135 ? im thinking of s2+ with this led for a sort of tube thrower..

About 700 according to djozz’s test on the first page.
-X3-
-X3-'s picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 07/16/2014 - 03:28
Posts: 2680
Location: France, Angers

Enderman wrote:
polarweis wrote:
How much lumen would one get with 1mm white flat at 8×7135 ? im thinking of s2+ with this led for a sort of tube thrower..

About 700 according to djozz’s test on the first page.

Also an S2 would make more sense than an S2+ because of the deeper reflector (also use an SMO of course)

EDIT : that is not quite true, as said by The_Driver. You’ll have a smaller hotspot but a bigger corona and not more Candela.

"-X3-, is there any place in your house without a flashlight ?" 

My Flashlight public album (mods, emitter swaps, eye candy)

My reviews channel (French language, Olight, Thorfire, Sofirn, Lumintop : 60+ lights tested)

My personal channel (including Olight SR mini, S1, S2, S1A and S-mini disassembly)

M4DM4X blog, saves you $$$ 

polarweis
polarweis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 16 min ago
Joined: 05/31/2017 - 17:05
Posts: 348
X3 wrote:
Enderman wrote:
polarweis wrote:
How much lumen would one get with 1mm white flat at 8×7135 ? im thinking of s2+ with this led for a sort of tube thrower..
About 700 according to djozz’s test on the first page.
Also an S2 would make more sense than an S2+ because of the deeper reflector (also use an SMO of course)

oh i didnt know that thanks! So i know intl sells centering rings for the 1mm flat white but only for 7mm reflector hole. what should i use with a 9 mm reflector hole?

"It wouldn’t be so bright if there wasn’t a shadow every once in a while." - Jason Mraz

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 28 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1365
Location: Germany

No. A deeper reflector just makes the light longer, it does not increase throw in a meaningful way. It does make the hotspot smaller though.

BobbyMK
BobbyMK's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 09/10/2015 - 05:50
Posts: 358
Location: Macedonia

I just installed CSLNM1.TG in s2+. The led is driven at 4.1A and it has 32500cd throw. Not sure how good this results is but this is what i got. I must note that i did the reflow and it is a sloppy job since it is on a XP sized board.

 Olight i3s, Olight S1, Olight S Mini, JetBeam Jet-1, BLF 348, Astrolux S41S, UF SK-98, Convoy S2+ 3*XP-G2, Convoy S2+ 3*XPL, Convoy S2+ 219CT, Convoy M1, Convoy C8, Brinyte B158, Courui D01, Convoy L6, Noctigon M43

Jerommel
Jerommel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 13:18
Posts: 5721
Location: the Hague, Netherlands

The_Driver wrote:
No. A deeper reflector just makes the light longer, it does not increase throw in a meaningful way. It does make the hotspot smaller though.

The S2+ reflector is very short though.

Deeper reflectors also give bigger coronas.

2Q19

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 28 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1365
Location: Germany

Jerommel wrote:
The_Driver wrote:
No. A deeper reflector just makes the light longer, it does not increase throw in a meaningful way. It does make the hotspot smaller though.

The S2+ reflector is very short though.

Deeper reflectors also give bigger coronas.

It’s all relative Wink

Yes, the light, that is missing in the hotspot and the spill, has to go somewhere.

Jerommel
Jerommel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 13:18
Posts: 5721
Location: the Hague, Netherlands

The_Driver wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
The_Driver wrote:
No. A deeper reflector just makes the light longer, it does not increase throw in a meaningful way. It does make the hotspot smaller though.

The S2+ reflector is very short though.

Deeper reflectors also give bigger coronas.

It’s all relative Wink

Yes, the light, that is missing in the hotspot and the spill, has to go somewhere.


The corona is bigger because the deeper reflector is narrower near the LED.
(Deeper reflector is a smaller size parabola)

2Q19

polarweis
polarweis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 16 min ago
Joined: 05/31/2017 - 17:05
Posts: 348

so bigger corona smaller hot spot.
so smaller hot spot but not more candela because less light is going to the hotspot and more to corona?

"It wouldn’t be so bright if there wasn’t a shadow every once in a while." - Jason Mraz

Ryzbor
Ryzbor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 01/21/2018 - 10:52
Posts: 192
Location: Poland

@BobbyMk, will you take a beamshot? How is the useable range? How does it compare to the XPL-HI C8?

good tint: Nichia E21A 2000K-7500K except d240 bin, Nichia 219B sw40/sw45, 219C sw303, Cree XPL-HI A/D bins, XHP70.2 5A, Samsung shaved LH351D's, SST-20 FD2, FA3, HA3, .

BobbyMK
BobbyMK's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 09/10/2015 - 05:50
Posts: 358
Location: Macedonia

Will take few in a few hours, just waiting to get dark outside Big Smile

I do not have any C8 with xpl hi but have one with Luxeon V2, here is picture side by side of those two.

Left C8, right S2+

 Olight i3s, Olight S1, Olight S Mini, JetBeam Jet-1, BLF 348, Astrolux S41S, UF SK-98, Convoy S2+ 3*XP-G2, Convoy S2+ 3*XPL, Convoy S2+ 219CT, Convoy M1, Convoy C8, Brinyte B158, Courui D01, Convoy L6, Noctigon M43

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 23 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 15164
Location: Amsterdam

32500 kcd is very respectable for a 20mm reflector, well done!

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 28 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1365
Location: Germany
polarweis wrote:
so bigger corona smaller hot spot. so smaller hot spot but not more candela because less light is going to the hotspot and more to corona?

Candela is only influenced by the front surface area of the reflector (as seen from the position of the hotspot) and the luminance of the LED. The depth of a reflector for a given outer diameter has a neglible effect on the front surface area (because the area of a circle increases with the square of the radius).

Ryzbor
Ryzbor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 01/21/2018 - 10:52
Posts: 192
Location: Poland
djozz wrote:
32500 kcd is very respectable for a 20mm reflector, well done!

How does that translate to meters of range? I’m a tint snob and know little to nothing about candelas, lux etc. so forgive me my ignorance.

good tint: Nichia E21A 2000K-7500K except d240 bin, Nichia 219B sw40/sw45, 219C sw303, Cree XPL-HI A/D bins, XHP70.2 5A, Samsung shaved LH351D's, SST-20 FD2, FA3, HA3, .

-X3-
-X3-'s picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 07/16/2014 - 03:28
Posts: 2680
Location: France, Angers
The_Driver wrote:
polarweis wrote:
so bigger corona smaller hot spot. so smaller hot spot but not more candela because less light is going to the hotspot and more to corona?

Candela is only influenced by the front surface area of the reflector (as seen from the position of the hotspot) and the luminance of the LED. The depth of a reflector for a given outer diameter has a neglible effect on the front surface area (because the area of a circle increase with the square of the radius).


Thank you very much for that explanation Smile
I’ll edit my post so there’s no confusion for other members

"-X3-, is there any place in your house without a flashlight ?" 

My Flashlight public album (mods, emitter swaps, eye candy)

My reviews channel (French language, Olight, Thorfire, Sofirn, Lumintop : 60+ lights tested)

My personal channel (including Olight SR mini, S1, S2, S1A and S-mini disassembly)

M4DM4X blog, saves you $$$ 

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 17 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3928
Location: Vancouver, Canada

The_Driver wrote:

Candela is only influenced by the front surface area of the reflector (as seen from the position of the hotspot) and the luminance of the LED. The depth of a reflector for a given outer diameter has a neglible effect on the front surface area (because the area of a circle increase with the square of the radius).


The candela still increases a little for a deeper reflector because the unused center hole decreases in size.

It’s probably negligible for a small height difference like the S2/S2+ but it is still incorrect to say it does not increase lux.

The_Driver
The_Driver's picture
Offline
Last seen: 28 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 10/20/2016 - 05:51
Posts: 1365
Location: Germany

Thats why I wrote “not meaningful”, “neglible” ;).

ZozzV6
ZozzV6's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 3 sec ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 12:19
Posts: 2233
Location: Near to my soldering iron.

I made a 3.15A S8 but S2+ internals with 1mm2 led and got 30800 cd with Smooth reflector and AR coated lens.

netprince
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 40 min ago
Joined: 06/14/2012 - 13:48
Posts: 512
Location: Virginia

BobbyMK wrote:
I just installed CSLNM1.TG in s2+. The led is driven at 4.1A and it has 32500cd throw. Not sure how good this results is but this is what i got. I must note that i did the reflow and it is a sloppy job since it is on a XP sized board.

!https://i.imgur.com/8hegEoU.jpg!

Nice job!

I have been wondering about this… how hard is it to get the CSLNM1.TG on an XP sized board? I know there are issues with excess solder from what I have read…

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5093
Location: Germany

netprince wrote:
BobbyMK wrote:
I just installed CSLNM1.TG in s2+. The led is driven at 4.1A and it has 32500cd throw. Not sure how good this results is but this is what i got. I must note that i did the reflow and it is a sloppy job since it is on a XP sized board.

!https://i.imgur.com/8hegEoU.jpg!

Nice job!

I have been wondering about this… how hard is it to get the CSLNM1.TG on an XP sized board? I know there are issues with excess solder from what I have read…

enough flux is the key so the solder sticks together where it should adhesive forces do the rest

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12173
Location: LI NY

Is it just me, or is it a difficult thing to judge the white flats vs. the black flat? Seems like in theory the white flats should have better throw, but in practical mods, every head to head I've seen the black flat prevails. This thread mostly compares the white flat to the good dedomed XP-G2 but I don't see apples to apples comparison in a real host to the black flat.

I understand the difficulties with the black flat with electrical isolation, but still, in a decent thrower host, has anyone proven the white is better than the black? Is it dependent on the host or maybe spending the time/effort on focusing a white flat for a particular reflector? Why would the white flat be more difficult to focus?

Pages