Q8 modding

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vwpieces
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hank wrote:
So what do you do to get the tail PCB out? Does it unscrew? Push out from inside the battery tube? Shake really hard?

Unscrew the cap off the back end, 4 Phillips screws and it falls out.

tekwyzrd
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Has anyone with pcb design experience considered designing a replacement switch board? It might be the quickest fix. Option of 2 or 4 emitters would be nice and would help reduce apparent uneven output and allow color blending or additional switch lighting features like battery state indicator with a supporting driver/firmware. I’ll be ordering I ordered a 10 color 200 piece lot of 0603 emitters so I’ll have a few to spare.

Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws. – Douglas Adams

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tekwyzrd wrote:
Has anyone with pcb design experience considered designing a replacement switch board? It might be the quickest fix. Option of 2 or 4 emitters would be nice and would help reduce apparent uneven output and allow color blending or additional switch lighting features like battery state indicator with a supporting driver/firmware. -I'll be ordering- I ordered a 10 color 200 piece lot of 0603 emitters so I'll have a few to spare.

I ordered a couple of multi color packs a couple years ago. I've been doing these indicator LED's for years now in flashlights. If you want to independently control multiple LED's, that requires some extra hardware - we are I/O pin limited, each LED would take an I/O pin, unless you can add some sort of multiplexer perhaps. 

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My tailcap and driver screws were screwed on very tightly.
They came off easily after I touched the heads of the screws for about a minute with the tip of a very hot soldering iron.
I also found stuff on my tailcap screw threads which was removed with a fine wire brush.
Since I do not have a tap I reinserted the screws and removed them.
More stuff came out and was cleaned.

I stuck a piece of tyre inner tube to the base of the light with silicone rubber to protect it when tail standing on rough surfaces. e.g when changing tyres. I used silicone because the rubber can be removed without damaging the Q8.
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Updated the Q8 thread OP with:

TWEAK

On some Q8 lights there can be a sandblasting powder residue under the tailpcb and in the screwholes for the tail pcb mounting screws.

On some Q8 lights there can be some sort of glue residue in the screwholes for the tail pcb mounting screws.

No worries it is not conductive, but that does mean there can be bump in output achieved when removing and cleaning it. The screws are very tight, USE A MATCHING SCREWDRIVER AND RUBBER BAND BETWEEN SCREW AND SCREWDRIVER TO AVOID STRIPPING!

Thorfire will clean better during the rest of the production.

CHECK

Quote:
hank wrote: Added note for QA/QC inspections — check that the bare metal end of the battery tube is polished smooth, no rough spots on the face or edges, because that surface has to make contact with the trace around the edge of the driver board. Question: is the lubricant being applied to the threads electrically conductive?

Answer. yes some lube is very likely required, please add your favorite flavor. Good point about tube, please use file and/or sandpaper to smoothen things out if too rough for your liking.

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Again, some screws are clearly stripped before you even touch them. I've encountered a couple screws stripped in both directions, more stripped only in the CW direction. Overall though, it seems more are good than bad. I have a large sample size (9 pieces) to review.

This is the condition they were in as installed, all 4 on the right, left one is good for reference:

     

 

This is the glue remnants:

After cleaned up:

    

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Tom E wrote:

Again, some screws are clearly stripped before you even touch them. I’ve encountered a couple screws stripped in both directions, more stripped only in the CW direction. Overall though, it seems more are good than bad. I have a large sample size (9 pieces) to review.


This is the condition they were in as installed, all 4 on the right, left one is good for reference:

…Even the ‘good’ one on the left looks bad to me… No wonder they get stripped – there does not seem to be much surface area for the screw driver head to act properly?

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patmurris wrote:

…Even the ‘good’ one on the left looks bad to me… No wonder they get stripped – there does not seem to be much surface area for the screw driver head to act properly?

That’s part of the problem. It looks like a phillips that is a little wallowed out. Reports are that it’s actually a JIS.

Lazy-R-us

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vwpieces wrote:
Tom E wrote:

I’m using 1/8” drill bit to drill out the driver holes a little bigger. It’s working well so far, but also replacing the flatheads with button tops.


I did find definite glue substance at the screw holes on the spring/tail PCB on one Q8. Why on one Q8, and nothing on others – no idea. Cleaned it off with 600 GRIT – that seemed to work well, in thin strips, folded, using the thumb nail to get in there. They do a not job of keeping the aluminum surface clear of anodizing, then put a layer of glue on it – I don’t get it. Also had one badly stripped out tail PCB screw. Had to use a cutting wheel on the rotary to cut a slot in the head, then slowly worked it out with a flat-bladed screwdriver.

I wasn’t hallucinating. Thumbs Up
I swear I saw another post with glue on the tail PCB screws. Paged all the way back to my Q8 arrival post, scanned it over and no joy finding it. 45min I quit. I am glad you found glue for my own sanity.

I found as well glue on the tail in the threads and one light the surface between PCB and metal the tother a big chunk of glue at the outer tube wall

I scratched the glue off and cut all threads again to get the glue out
now the screws get in without any resistance

my brass rings had also some black stuff on the outer diameter where the batteries make contact

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Had some fun again last night. Had to use a rotary cutting wheel to create my own slot for a flat-blade to get it out - wasn't easy. The screws are so low, the board tracing of course gets cut a little but I was pretty careful, just took quite a while. They are gone now - all those are replaced with star drive pan heads now - M3 x 5mm (https://www.boltdepot.com/Metric_machine_screws_Star_drive_pan_head_Stainless_steel_18-8_(A-2)_3mm_x_0.5mm.aspx).

They barely clear the end cap, but I don't care - just want something reliable that works as it should.

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It can’t be easy for the poor operators, trying to get the M3 screws started in the too-tight driver PCB hole. Then trying to get them started in the metal body, after they have tapped their way through the PCB, with no hole-clearance for alignment. Add in some sandblasting grit as well …

I can imagine the muttered curses, and time-pressure to meet productivity targets.

Then it seems some torches are having glue added (maybe old habits die hard, some are just doing what they were trained to do on standard mass-produced torches). Did we ask for them not to be glued ?

Perhaps the screws are laptop type with JIS heads but the screwdrivers are not, perhaps some screwdrivers are just worn out (should be regularly inspected and replaced as necessary, not just wait for an operator to ask for a new one) etc. etc.

Maybe final assembly is even sent out to a number of “piecework” operators (used to be common practice in China).

Result: chewed heads.

None of this matters much to me, as long as the threads in the metalwork are good, and I can get the original screws out, without too much bother. Heating screw head with a soldering iron first if glue is suspected is a good tip, particularly if you want to re-use them, and don’t want to risk chewing up a good head yourself. If a screw seems unduly tight I also give the screwdriver a good rap on the handle with a soft hammer first to try to break it free before bearing down and going for it.

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Believe it or not, I'm seeing worse things with screws in Haikelites - there I get real stripped body threading.

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Lazy-R-us wrote:
That’s part of the problem. It looks like a phillips that is a little wallowed out. Reports are that it’s actually a JIS.

At least for me a JIS J1 driver worked perfectly, but mine weren’t badly stripped at all to begin with.

nishayume
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Interested in parts for q8,driver and switch… And different bezels? Cool I want to show some pictures, i dont understand nothing or not too much about the pcb “problems” but i can do things to fix the little things,clean, or easy tasks i want to learn.

Pictures

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Its a vicious circle, once you start stripping heads the screwdriver suffers as well, particularly if it is not a high quality one. Production standard tools are expensive, but worth every penny.

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Then there is the job of the buyer, who may have no engineering knowledge whatsoever, or maybe is new, and given this seemingly trivial task whilst the senior buyers focus on the difficult stuff, like electronic components, switch LEDs etc.

Tasked to procure at least 18,000 screws needed for the initial run (2000 plus however many more we don’t know about). Maybe in a desperate last minute rush.

Lowest bidder wins, if e.g. material spec. not fully specified, even if made of cheese.

fixed it
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Tom E wrote:
Had some fun again last night. Had to use a rotary cutting wheel to create my own slot for a flat-blade to get it out – wasn’t easy. The screws are so low, the board tracing of course gets cut a little but I was pretty careful, just took quite a while.
Ever heard of screw grab? I wish I’d learned of it 10 years earlier. It’s usually great for dealing with damaged screws. I read lapping compound works as well, though I’ve never used that myself.
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vwpieces wrote:
Tom E wrote:

I’m using 1/8” drill bit to drill out the driver holes a little bigger. It’s working well so far, but also replacing the flatheads with button tops.


I did find definite glue substance at the screw holes on the spring/tail PCB on one Q8. Why on one Q8, and nothing on others – no idea. Cleaned it off with 600 GRIT – that seemed to work well, in thin strips, folded, using the thumb nail to get in there. They do a not job of keeping the aluminum surface clear of anodizing, then put a layer of glue on it – I don’t get it. Also had one badly stripped out tail PCB screw. Had to use a cutting wheel on the rotary to cut a slot in the head, then slowly worked it out with a flat-bladed screwdriver.

I wasn’t hallucinating. Thumbs Up
I swear I saw another post with glue on the tail PCB screws. Paged all the way back to my Q8 arrival post, scanned it over and no joy finding it. 45min I quit. I am glad you found glue for my own sanity.

I didn’t take a picture but I had glue on all 4 of my screws. I drilled the holes under the springs out and ran 20awg wire from the top of each spring to a screw hole on the board. I didn’t take any measurements before but I could tell it was brighter.

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Diamond grit encrusted screwdrivers work well. I don’t have any myself, but have used them, and they do help.

This was several years ago, when they were rather exotic.

E.g. http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43411,43417&p=56716 and http://stanley.mynewsdesk.com/pressreleases/stanley-r-introduces-new-fat...

I’d like to find a set of small precision ones, any ideas ?

hank
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I have one screw in which the intersecting grooves are off-center, displaced toward one edge.
I’d guess these screws were stamped rather than cut?

——

Open question — the lubricant used on the threads, as supplied from TF — is it a conductive lubricant or not conductive?

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ScrewGrab here on Amazon, interesting. I'm hoping that was the last of the bad ones. Didn't try all of them yet.

hank
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Here’s an interesting discussion about screwdriver bits.
I can’t believe I just wrote that.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-tools/hozan-jis-screwdrivers-review/

Quote:
My theory is that modern manufacturing techniques can now grind or machine or otherwise make a tool bit with much more precision than the old pressed steel screwdriver types.

This “modern grind” results in a Phillips bit or tip without the slightly curved flutes found on old-style Phillips pressed-steel screwdrivers.

The modern grind, with its straight flutes (on the outer edge), result in a Phillips screwdriver that will also work in JIS screws.

True JIS screws haven’t been used since, well, maybe since Yamaha was still making two-stroke street bikes. Thus, something like 99.999% of motorcycle owners will never have to worry about this, because they’ll never come across a JIS screw.

But for the rest — and for us tool freaks who demand the exact correct tool for the job — the search is on for “real” JIS screwdrivers and bits.

The problem? The screwdrivers that are sold as JIS aren’t really. Either that, or it’s basically impossible to tell the difference.

We’re saying it’s all of the above.

That’s because we have spent the last several weeks buying, photographing, inspecting and measuring Phillips and JIS screwdrivers and bits.

We even special-ordered a couple of Frearson bits (you ever hear of those?) and I happen to have an old Reed Prince #2 screwdriver in my toolbox. You never heard of a Reed Prince screwdriver either?

Don’t worry; apparently it was the forerunner of the Frearson. Both are lost and dusty wrong-way side alleys on the road to screwdriver evolution.

Take a look at our rash of photos below and you pick out the true JIS screwdriver…if you can. We can’t, and we’re beginning to think there is no such thing.

and furthermore, what does the acronym JIS come from? They explain:

Quote:
In fact, according to Vessel, one of the oldest JIS screwdriver manufacturers in Japan, there are no more manufacturers of JIS screwdrivers. So any JIS screwdrivers you see for sale either aren’t true JIS or are NOS (New Old Stock).

From the Vessel website:

Quote:
“As you might know, VESSEL is the oldest screwdriver manufacturer in Japan, and made a contribution to set a Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) standard. We do follow JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) standard for cross point screwdrivers.

Because the technology to manufacture screwdrivers in Japan had already become above a certain level, JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) recognition system for screwdrivers became extinct in 2008.

So there is no authorized JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) manufacturer now, and we therefore cannot print “JIS” mark on our screwdrivers.


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Just received mine! Everything looks fine, except the LED centering. Anyone have a tip on how to get the reflector out? It just won’t budge and I don’t want to use excessive force trying to get it out.

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Sledgestone wrote:
Just received mine! Everything looks fine, except the LED centering. Anyone have a tip on how to get the reflector out? It just won’t budge and I don’t want to use excessive force trying to get it out.

Did you remove the screw that holds it down? Gotta take driver out - then you'll see it - one M4 x8mm (think), centered. It's in very tight - use a really good screwdriver. After than the reflector may need a little nudging because the o-ring kind of holds it in.

I'm replacing this screw as well. Think should be a combo, some are phillips only - another inconsistent thing... Facepalm

Tom Tom
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hank wrote:
Here’s an interesting discussion about screwdriver bits. I can’t believe I just wrote that.

Now that you are interested in screwdrivers, I refer you to the wikipedia article I linked in my post http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1188586#comment-1188586

Where you can learn all about screw heads.

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Haha, I didn’t even know that there was a screw there Facepalm

That’ll have to wait for another day. I haven’t got the time today.

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Tom E wrote:

Sledgestone wrote:
Just received mine! Everything looks fine, except the LED centering. Anyone have a tip on how to get the reflector out? It just won’t budge and I don’t want to use excessive force trying to get it out.

Did you remove the screw that holds it down? Gotta take driver out – then you’ll see it – one M4 ×8mm (think), centered. It’s in very tight – use a really good screwdriver. After than the reflector may need a little nudging because the o-ring kind of holds it in.


I’m replacing this screw as well. Think should be a combo, some are phillips only – another inconsistent thing… Facepalm

Its a bit of a balls-up.

My theory: when they put the M2.5 screws on the later prototype, (earlier ones were M3), they were thinking about commonality with the tail screws, which makes perfect sense. They got the driver drilling changed to M2.5 (correct) but they forgot to tell manufacturing to update the CNC program, so ended up with battery tubes to the old design, and maybe had to source a bunch of M3 screws ASAP, and took whatever they could get. Then forced them into the M2.5 driver boards (hey, look, if you force it you can get the screws in, result, we don’t have to manually re-drill them all, phew.)

Bad enough having a mix of M2.5 and M3, but worse still if some are Phillips and others JIS. Recipe for wrong screwdriver being used (if they even have any JIS drivers).

In a perfect world they would all be torx.

Tom E
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My tail screw replacements are torx pan head, but my driver replacements are hex socket button top (lower profile), and my M4x8mm reflector replacement is phillips pan head.

Nothing like variety.... Facepalm smile

I suppose torx button tops all around would be best? Lower profile would help. If I could get them at a reasonable cost and time...

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Quote:
better to leave them be for now, until a consensus is reached as to the best replacement, ideally to be supplied as a retrofit kit, for those who want them.

That would be nice.

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Thanks for the info. I ordered an assortment of 0603 smd resistors just in case. Hopefully both leds will work just fine with the supplied voltage. If not, I can swap out the 1 resistor with something lower to provide 3v to power the blue and do some adhoc soldering to drop the voltage even further to 2.5v for the pink.

Tom Tom wrote:
piyoman wrote:
I just realized that my plan to swap out the existing 2 green LEDs with pink and blue may not work with the purchase I made. I measured the LED voltage and it’s currently at 2.17v when the batteries are full. It looks like the pink can be swapped in since it works between 2-2.6v but the blue requires 3.1-3.3v to function. Any ideas?

The voltage you are measuring is simply the Vf of the original LEDs. If you put in a different LED then the series resistor would compensate. If you had no LED fitted at-all, you would measure full battery voltage across the LED pads.

At the very low current levels used here you probably don’t need anything like as much voltage as you might think for the LEDs to light up just fine. If not, a slight reduction in the series resistor value might be all that is needed to get them glowing again. It is really just “suck it and see” (AKA modding).

Djozz has suggested that blue ones dim a bit when battery voltage drops at lower charge levels.

If you plan on fitting one blue, one pink, well it’s anybody’s guess, because they may not be be well matched, using the original one-resistor switch PCB. Or if you are lucky, with the particular LEDs that you bought it might work just fine. Even if so, it might not work for someone else, with different LEDs.

Nobody can assure you that it will work well, you are on your own here, which is part of the fun.

If Thorfire do change it so each LED has it’s own resistor, that would be the ideal platform for this mod.

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