[Big news, see OP!] Sofirn SP10S "BLF edition" with Andúril 2

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Scallywag
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jon_slider wrote:
it is Anduril that has a problem with low level flickering, using LiIon. AA is not the cause of Andurils inability to support flicker free firefly levels.

You've posted this several times, in various threads, since at least last year. (I've also attempted to gently correct you before.) I don't care if you dislike Anduril (you've mentioned blinkies and complexity before which are very valid points in their own right), but I ask that you stop spreading false information about it.

It is not an Anduril problem. It is a driver problem. It is consistently difficult to achieve very low levels using the traditional 7135 and/or FET design. The lowest lows of all my flashlights are as follows:

  1. Absolute lowest: Jetbeam RRT01
  2. SC62(w)
  3. Nitecore EX11.2 on 16340
  4. FW3A and Emisar D4 (pretty even match, actual usability is indistinguishable but I'm sure the lumen count is technically different)
  5. Several lights I've modded to use the "Moonlight Special" driver 
  6. My modded Convoy L6
  7. A bunch of other FET/7135-driver lights that don't have a dedicated 1x7135 channel for moonlight

(Note: IIRC there's one or more Manker AA/AAA lights that have a pretty low moonlight)

Notice the common factor between 1, 2, and 3? They don't use FET/7135 driver styles. (The tradeoff, of course, is that 7135/FET is very simple and cheap.)

 

For a more technical view of things... My understanding is that, in general, you can only effectively run these things so low. You also talk about "flicker-free" low modes, which is fun. I'm not aware of other good ways to control a single 7135's output besides PWM, but I'm starting to get out of my depth there. Anyway, as I understand it, you can only PWM it so much before you start to get some disgusting flicker going on. PWM itself isn't necessarily bad, because it can be done on the scale of thousands of cycles per second, speeds where you'd be lucky to catch it on a camera. But to get down to the ultra lows without switching driver technologies, the PWM gets into lower frequencies.

Also, the KR4 driver in particular has a further limitation on moonlight, which has been gone over a few times: some part of the driver (the MCU or the FET I think, but I'm too lazy to look it up again) doesn't officially support the current of, as I recall, the lowest two configured ramp levels. So by default it ships with the minimum ramp (and therefore lowest mode) as ramp level 3. This can be configured lower but may land anywhere in the range of "works fine what's the problem" to "just doesn't power on at that level", with a lot of in-between landing at "turns on visibly slowly, almost ramping up to the moonlight". This is, again, a driver issue rather than an Anduril issue.

 

Edit: SammysHP covered some of the finer points in an excellent post above.

Scallywag
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
jon_slider wrote:
Thujone wrote:
If the AA leads to poor low level flickering

it is Anduril that has a problem with low level flickering, using LiIon.

AA is not the cause of Andurils inability to support flicker free firefly levels.

This is really an issue with driver design (and instability at very low outputs) rather than the firmware. Anudril itself uses PWM fast enough to be completely imperceptible at every step AFAIK.

I don’t see why Anudril couldn’t be adapted to a driver that solved that issue – however lights and drivers with extremely low moonlight that is flicker free generally aren’t cheap, because the drivers that can accomplish this are difficult to engineer and more expensive to produce.

Yeah, this. In fact it’s so difficult to design and/or expensive to build drivers that can do this properly, that LoneOceans neglected to address it in his lume1 driver “to keep this as simple as possible and to keep the BOM cost down without sacrificing on the engineering”.

MascaratumB
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Lightbringer wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
3 – “Anduril is full of blinky and clicky stuff that I dont want.” – I may agree with you on this, although having a candle mode could be nice on a AA light Wink

Hey, you already got it!  <snark/>


I have 3 stock lights and 1 modded light with Anduril, and none of them flickers! So, I guess I didn’t get those issues with my lights Wink
Geuzzz
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Sublumen Moonlight works fine on my Anduril lights. Use it every evening.

MascaratumB
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jon_slider wrote:
you are right Smile My D10 lowest mode is 1 lumen with sw45k it is actually the D11.2 firmware that produces 0.01 lumens minimum

Now you got me envious Wink
I still didn’t give up on getting one of those Thumbs Up

jon_slider wrote:
not for me Smile to me, candle mode is just a fancy word for flicker, it has no real resemblance to a real candle

Hum, I guess it is not just flickering , but I do recognize that it is not like a real candle! Nothing will ever look like a real candle, specially because of the fire’s “tint” and the flame’s random movements Wink

jon_slider wrote:
clearly you, and others who “love anduril” do not require firefly Smile

carry on… this is not the droid Im looking for

Well, I do like and use firefly modes, as you know from our conversations about the RRT01.
At the same time, I admit that a good moonlight level (even if not as low as the RRT01 or the Reylight) would be good in this project.
This is a personal preference and opinion, of course, but I guess the the achievement or not of a firefly level shouldn’t hinder this project from being done.
And I like anduril, I confess Innocent Even if it is not perfect Evil

jon_slider
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thanks guys Smile

I stand corrected,

With the right driver, Anduril will run on AA at firefly levels, with no flicker..

Beer

WTB Novatac Pocket Clip

BurningPlayd0h
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jon_slider wrote:
thanks guys Smile

I stand corrected,

With the right driver, Anduril will run on AA at firefly levels, with no flicker..

Beer

If you’ve experienced this with the KR4 you’re not alone though. Like SammysHP said due to the driver itself very low levels can be unstable. Just how low it will stay stable depends on the individual light because of variances in the driver components.

Lightbringer
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MascaratumB wrote:
I have 3 stock lights and 1 modded light with Anduril, and none of them flickers! So, I guess I didn’t get those issues with my lights Wink

Thanks for popping my balloon…

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MascaratumB
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Lightbringer wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
I have 3 stock lights and 1 modded light with Anduril, and none of them flickers! So, I guess I didn’t get those issues with my lights Wink

Thanks for popping my balloon…


Big Smile
patmurris
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Interested.

Tom E
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There's work going on with the driver.

 

We have top men working on it right now.

Who?

Top .... Men

 

Indiana Jones of course...

Lux-Perpetua
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+1 @ Tom E Smile

Thank you Tom E, ToyKeeper, Lexel and gchart for continuously supporting this project. Your expertise is highly appreciated. Thumbs Up

Thanks also to SammysHP and Scallywag for your kind explanation of the flickering's root cause. So, we can officially call Andúril...

SammysHP
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But a candle flickers! Big Smile

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Interested, this is a cool project.
Regarding the magnet discussion on previous page, I’d rather there wasn’t one (or as an optional tailcap) to keep it as small and lightweight as possible, and to that end, I’d also prefer not supporting protected 14500s (granted that the driver will have a LVP) to keep it shorter, but maybe that’s not possible if the the body has to stay unmodified from the SP10S.

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Wow,more than 1 year passed from the start of project.
They can do now a version with Eco mode memory for AA batt.?
Hope to get Anduril later

Lexel
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I made the design for this one based on the original driver replacing MCU and gave it to Sofirn to double check if the sort of reverse engeneered+scematic one matches the original
It seems there is slow progress confirming it and getting a prototype made

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Lexel wrote:
I made the design for this one based on the original driver replacing MCU and gave it to Sofirn to double check if the sort of reverse engeneered+scematic one matches the original
It seems there is slow progress confirming it and getting a prototype made

Were you able to put flashing pads on it?
Lexel
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asdqqq wrote:
Lexel wrote:
I made the design for this one based on the original driver replacing MCU and gave it to Sofirn to double check if the sort of reverse engeneered+scematic one matches the original It seems there is slow progress confirming it and getting a prototype made
Were you able to put flashing pads on it?

yes and I should have posted a pic

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I’m interested! Please put me on the list if there is one for this project.

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If adding AA compatibility ALSO raises the price significantly… hell with AAs! Lets get some 14500 models built and out there today!

I mean… we ALL use li-on in all our OTHER lights and the 14500 is SUCH an improvement in output (why the public buys lights more than any other reason) over the AA. But I get the Catch 22… the “public” often wants to use Alkaleaks. BUT, the “public” will NEVER take the time to learn Anduril and a lot of reviews I’ve read (especially on Amazon) are flush with statements like, “I pushed the button twice and it went out of control- not for me so I sent it back. Thanks Amazon for the free (to me, but not the manufacturer) return shipping.”

Other way to see it is this in not an el-cheapo’ AA light (in any case). So aside from gifting to muggles and selling them on Amazon- both NOT into Anduril… the question is: do we get an Anduril SP10 any time soon? (how old is this thread?) !!!

ZappaMan

Lightbringer
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Okay, if you want to sell a light to The Muggle that takes AA-format cells (1.xV or 3.xV), you need to dumb it down somewhat to prevent those nice free Amazon returns. Howbow…

1C on/off

1H moonlight (from off), increment brightness (from on)

2C turbo (vs sustainable high)

3C nothing (ie, anything beyond 2C requires minor determination to get there)

4C lockout

5C momentary.

Unscrew/Rescrew to “reset” from any any any any any mode.

On powerup (including unscrew/rescrew), blink out battery voltage (X.Y volts normally, or 1-4 blinks for the developmentally-disabled).

Ie, no (other) blinkies.

Unless someone buys 10 of ‘em to stick on his kid’s b’day cake, who really needs candle-mode in an AA-format light? Or lightning mode, or even plain ol’ irritating strobe?

People don’t want ¼” drills. They want ¼” holes. Weirdos like us might want to be able to control-alt-tripleclick to get to cuttlefish mode, but the typical DD flashlight buyer would stumble upon that mode and sent it back just for spite. They’re used to their simple Mags and Dorcys and whatnot, and tossing ‘em the keys to a 747 is just asking for trouble.

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Zappaman
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Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Yup! – and I’ll take a 737 TODAY Beer

Getter’done!

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Sorry, people – if it doesn’t work well on AA NiMH, I’m out.

I’m legally blind, and the way I avoid confusion between cells with different nominal voltages is to decree one voltage per size. That way, I can’t fry anything that uses 1.2V / 1.5V cells by putting 3.7V Li-Ions in it by mistake.

There’s so much stuff that uses AA or AAA that those have to be the choice in that size. There will never be Li-Ion 10440 or 14500 cells in my stuff.

(When I’m using Li-Ion, it’s always 18650 or 26650.)

asdqqq
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Lexel wrote:

yes and I should have posted a pic

Nice. Looks like the pad layout is different than the key that I bought for my Emisar lights. Is this layout available to purchase anywhere? Or is there a way I can easily adapt it?

Also, for whatever it’s worth, I tested the voltage of my kids SP10S when the Ladda AA in it stopped working, and it was at .897. So thereabouts is when the boost driver stops working.

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Phlogiston wrote:
Sorry, people – if it doesn’t work well on AA NiMH, I’m out.

I think that’s the same story for a lot of folk here, me included.

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Isn’t there some trauma concerning the µCs that Andy won’t run on low-voltage ones?

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As far as I understand it, if with the modification Lexel has proposed, the driver proves to be capable of running Anduril, the worry about needing extra time or money to make it 1.5V and 3.7V compatible is moot.

If the desire is to get an Anduril 14500 light as soon as possible, I think that can be accomplished already using a Texas Avenger design (I don’t know if Texas Ace sells them assembled, but Lexel has a variant) if you have a host that accepts a 15mm driver and are comfortable doing a driver swap.

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Lightbringer wrote:
Isn’t there some trauma concerning the µCs that Andy won’t run on low-voltage ones?

To my recollection, Anduril is designed for the ATTiny microcontrollers, which require a higher voltage to run. The last discussion I saw was that the microcontroller would have to receive boosted voltage from AA/NiMH just to turn on, and then it could do its thing. Implementation of that (or another) solution is over my head
Petroleum Lante...
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Interested.

I love all kinds of lights... storm lanterns, kosmos & matador lamps, gas lanterns, tallow lanterns, flashlights, lasers, tritium vials...

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Lightbringer wrote:
Isn’t there some trauma concerning the µCs that Andy won’t run on low-voltage ones?

Lexel has two coils on his board. It appears one drives the logic circuitry while the other drives the power LED. The coil that drives the logic circuitry can boost independently of the LED coil. Because the logic circuitry requires so much less current to run vs. the primary LED, the microcontroller will have power right up until the very end of the battery life. The primary LED may not be able to run, but the brains of the operation will get the juice it requires.

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