Nichia 219C, testing a 5000K 83CRI emitter, comparing with a XP-G2 S4 2B and other leds

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djozz
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Nichia 219C, testing a 5000K 83CRI emitter, comparing with a XP-G2 S4 2B and other leds

The Nichia 219C is the newest upgrade in the 219 series. The Nichia 219 leds have become famous for their 90+ CRI variants, giving better colour reproduction than any Cree or other led, but in the performance section they were way behind Cree at start.  But since back then the 219 has come a long way: the 219B performed way better than the 219A, and this test shows another huge leap with the 219C.

The 90+ CRI versions of the 219C are not on the market yet, but I was able to purchase this Nichia 5000K 83CRI B280-300 led from Lumitronics in Germany (the picture on the site is wrong btw). Voltage and current performances from this test will be comparable for the upcoming high CRI variants (when time comes, I want to test them as well for output and colour performance), but for now let's see how this 5000K 83CRI led compares to a latest bin XP-G2 Smile

The Nichia was reflowed on a 16mm Noctigon board and tested for voltage and output using my usual method, described in the XP-L test-thread, except that for this test my 46cm integrating sphere was used (should not make a difference for the results). Also I tested a Cree XP-G2 S4 2B led, for comparison and also because I have thusfar only tested lower binned XP-G2's and the newer XP-G2's are said to have higher voltages (and higher output of course).

For the graphically challenged, here are the raw collected data from the tests, also because I find the actual numbers always very useful for reference (in blueish green the Nichia numbers, in greenish green the XP-G2 numbers):

For comparison, in the graph I added some already posted test data (collected with the exact same method): for the Nichia219B 4500K 90+CRI, the new Osram Oslon Square 4000K 90+CRI, and an old batch cool white XP-G2 R5. Note that output differences are partly a result of varying colour temprature and CRI of the different leds in the graph.

 

 

So what can be seen?

*I have put way to many lines in this graph, I hope you can make things out Sad

*the output of the 219C is very very good, close to the (cooler tinted and lower CRI) latest XP-G2! The maximum at 6.2A is the same as the XP-G2, so Nichia has (silently) managed to achieve the same low thermal resistance as Cree. And look at the difference with the 219B (maximum at 3.8V), this is a huge leap again.

*the 219C has the lowest voltage of the bunch, and so much lower than the XP-G2 that it is more efficient at all currents. The voltage is even significantly lower than the Cree XM-L2 (0.25V ! lower at 6A). This makes the 219C very easy to use in single li-ion flashlights, it will even require current regulation (polish up your Qlites!), with FET-drivers it may draw more current than you would like!

*I really tried, but could not kill the 219C, I stopped at 10A. After that I looked for decreased performance, checked at 4.4A, and found just 2.5% less output. This could be caused by what looks from the side like a semi-detached dome (led at .5mA). Having been at 10A for 2 minutes, I can not blame this led Cool:

*the 92CRI new Oslon Square that I tested recently, outperformed the Nichia 219B, but compared to the 219C the Oslon will probably loose it (but a definite answer is there when the 92CRI 219C becomes available).

*this XP-G2 S4 2B has a fairly constant 0.2V higher voltage than this old batch XP-G2 R5 over most of the current range. This is consistent with the general observation on the newer Cree leds.

 

With these results I am curious about the dedomed performance of the 219C. The XP-G2 still has the advantage of a bit better output and of a bit smaller die size (1.45x1.45mm, compared to 1.6x1.6mm for the 219), but I really like the uniformity of the 219C die for use in aspherics:

(here at 0.5mA, and after the torture)

 

Conclusion

The Nichia 219C seems a fantastic upgrade over the 219B, in performance, voltage and thermal resistance. I'm also really looking forward to the 90+ CRI variants. As already said in the new Oslon Square test: it is high time that Cree launches a new generation XP-G2.

Thanks for reading!

(stereo picture)

Edited by: djozz on 06/24/2015 - 09:26
Hikelite
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Do you know what voltage bin is this, M1 L1 or L2?That would be nice to know since not all 219C will be identical in forward voltage.

You can see in the datasheets that 219B-V1 for example is rated at lower vfs than the 219B, and basically identical to the 219C's vf ratings.

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Wow! I really hope the high CRI variants show such a big performance bump. The low Vf and similar output could make this a serious candidate to replace the XP-G2 in throwers like the 1504. How long till you dedome one yourself?

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Wow thanks for the informative review. This new nichia is very promising.
And I feel totally out not know how high the output can be for these smaller LEDs (xpg2 and nichia). :8)

djozz
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Hikelite wrote:

Do you know what voltage bin is this, M1 L1 or L2?That would be nice to know since not all 219C will be identical in forward voltage.

You can see in the datasheets that 219B-V1 for example is rated at lower vfs than the 219B, and basically identical to the 219C's vf ratings.

Technische Details
Leistung5,81 W
Farbtemperatur5000 K 
Farbwiedergabe83 Ra 
Abstrahlwinkel130º 
Kurzdatenblatt
Strom350 mA700 mA1800 mA 
Spannung2,76 V2,98 V3,23 V 
Effizienz149 lm/W134 lm/W100 lm/W 
Lichtstrom144 lm280 lm586 lm 

Es kann sich um Maximalwerte handeln

 

 

 

 

 

This is all what is on the Lumintronics site about the led, it suggests an L2 rank.

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Thansk Djozz.... again interesting post! and very helpful and informative!

thanks for the hard work!

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Great results, thanks for the testing!

Amazing how much this LED can take without blowing. Are you listening Cree?

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Thank you djozz!

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thanks for the review!

prisma
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ChibiM wrote:

Thansk Djozz…. again interesting post! and very helpful and informative!

thanks for the hard work!

+1

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1+ Thank you Djozz!

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Great review, eagerly awaiting this LED… Thanks!

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Thank you for all the detailed information you put into the review Beer

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Thank you Djozz! How is the tint and color rendition?

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Does that graph mean it wouldn’t play well with a FET driver?
Back to the piggybacked 7135 drivers if we want to max the LED?
… or of course an LD-1 / LD-2 from LED4POWER.

Edit: Seems like 4.2volt from a fresh IMR18650 would be way too much power…?

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Wow! This sounds like a great LED. Can’t wait till the high CRI versions come out.

Sounds like all my 219s will need to be upgraded sometime this year.

Great job on the review Djozz. Big Smile

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Great work,djozz,as always.

When you take nichia's 80+CRI into consideration,nichia looks even better.

One question:could you please take a picture of XP-G2 S4 die?

I posted few pictures of "unusual" xp-p2 with definitely bigger die size (~2.3-2.4mm2 ) in this thread:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/39097

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Oh boy oh boy oh boy.  I sense a new triple S2 in the not so distant future!  Thanks for all your testing djozz.

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Great info! Pilotdog68 is right, these could be real winners in a 1504. With the larger die I’m not sure there’s much of a throw advantage, but more lumens, similar throw, and longer time in regulation. What’s not to like!?!?

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Wow thank you Djozz for such thorough testing and comparison!

I am interested in your thoughts on the tint/color rendering of this 5000K/83CRI version.

Thanks!

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Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
Great info! Pilotdog68 is right, these could be real winners in a 1504. With the larger die I’m not sure there’s much of a throw advantage, but more lumens, similar throw, and longer time in regulation. What’s not to like!?!?

I didn’t realize the die is larger.

Also, someone above had a good point. The Vf is almost too low. You would have to use a linear driver with this one, no FETs. And it still isn’t as efficient as an XP-G2.

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pilotdog68 wrote:
Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
Great info! Pilotdog68 is right, these could be real winners in a 1504. With the larger die I’m not sure there’s much of a throw advantage, but more lumens, similar throw, and longer time in regulation. What’s not to like!?!?

I didn’t realize the die is larger.

Also, someone above had a good point. The Vf is almost too low. You would have to use a linear driver with this one, no FETs. And it still isn’t as efficient as an XP-G2.

I fail to see the problem. A guppydrv flashed Q.lite and extra 7135’s is cheaper than a good FET driver. Besides the 1504 doesn’t last all that long with a FET driver and XP-G2 anyway. I doubt I’d notice the 10 minutes it loses, not everyone will feel the same way though.

Besides, the die is only about .3mm² larger, so if you can increase the output 13% over the Vf limited XP-G2 you’ve you’ve eliminated the advantage. While it’s not quite there at startup (the XP-G2 will throw slightly further) as the voltage drops the Nichia will overtake the XP-G2 because the Vf is so much lower.

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pilotdog68 wrote:
Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
Great info! Pilotdog68 is right, these could be real winners in a 1504. With the larger die I'm not sure there's much of a throw advantage, but more lumens, similar throw, and longer time in regulation. What's not to like!?!?
I didn't realize the die is larger. Also, someone above had a good point. The Vf is almost _too low._ You would have to use a linear driver with this one, no FETs. And it still isn't as efficient as an XP-G2.

It is more efficient than the XP-G2, the lower Vf makes more than up for the lower output. But in a single li-ion flashlight it runs less efficient initially because the overvoltage of the battery is just burnt up by the driver. Once the battery voltage goes down during drainage, the Nichia runs more efficient than the XP-G2.

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Kloepper Knife Works wrote:

I fail to see the problem. A guppydrv flashed Q.lite and extra 7135’s is cheaper than a good FET driver. Besides the 1504 doesn’t last all that long with a FET driver and XP-G2 anyway. I doubt I’d notice the 10 minutes it loses, not everyone will feel the same way though.

Besides, the die is only about .3mm² larger, so if you can increase the output 13% over the Vf limited XP-G2 you’ve you’ve eliminated the advantage. While it’s not quite there at startup (the XP-G2 will throw slightly further) as the voltage drops the Nichia will overtake the XP-G2 because the Vf is so much lower.


The problem is very vain in nature: I like single-sided boards :bigsmile:

I usually prefer linear drivers, but many times I have gone with a fet just for aesthetics. Otherwise, yes, the uber-low Vf is a huge plus. If the high CRI version is as good as this one is, I’ll be replacing a lot of XP-G2’s in my lights.

edit: thanks for the correction Djozz. I see lower lumens at the same amperage and just think “less efficient”. The effect of the lower voltage on efficiency didn’t even register.

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Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
Great info! Pilotdog68 is right, these could be real winners in a 1504. With the larger die I'm not sure there's much of a throw advantage, but more lumens, similar throw, and longer time in regulation. What's not to like!?!?

Well I looked up n10sivern's test numbers and the XP-G2 S4 2B drew 3.8A in the 1504, I assume that is at start with a full battery. That is 1170 lumen in my graph. The 219C gives off 1170 lumen at 4.7A, it will easily run more current than that so the output will be more than the XP-G2. But the 219C die is about 20% bigger, so it will never throw as well as the XP-G2 with the battery full. But that changes when the battery drains. Actually I did not measure the die size of the 219C, still have to try to dedome it, I just assume it is the same size as the 219B.

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Thanks for the work, djozz! Beer

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Thanks for all the support, it makes this place what it is Smile

Now for some sad news: hot-dedome attempt failed. I have succesfully hot-dedomed Nichia 219's before, but with the succesful ones a thin thin film of silicone remained over the die. however, not with this one. Perhaps next attempt would work, but this will be my only attempt for a while, I'd rather leave the one remaining emitter I have alone.

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I don't think I'm the only one that thinks this but your the man. The graph with all its lines is only to easy to read. You have chosen the colours well. The lower voltage of this led to me makes it more than worth looking at. The light still has really good output when most batteries have fallen on their face in single cell use. Thanks again for the outstanding work and invaluable information.

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Awesome work djozz! Thanks for sharing it.

Can you see if the S4 bin XP-G2’s die is any bigger than usual?

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I dedomed the XP-G2 S4 2B also (this one worked fine except for a small piece of silicone on one corner of the die) and made pictures of the two emitters under the stereo microscope at the exact same magnification, then Photoshopped the dies next to each other (I did not match the sizes, both leds are indeed the exact same size), the dies look the same size too (so is the S4 bigger than before? I don't know). I have to go to bed now, so no further measurements, but last thing I did was measuring the XP-G2 emitter with caliphers and I measure exactly 3.5mm (if we did not already know that, but I never measured it myself), so you can work out the real size of the dies from the picture below (good luck Wink )

EDIT: Oh shoot, took out the ruler and I measured it all the same, I measure the XP-G2 die size at 1.48x1.48mm. Apparantly the 219C die is smaller than the 219B die Smile (and now for the succesful dedome, who can do it?)

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I’ll gladly try a dedome once I get my dirty paws on one of these gems

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