Nichia 219C, testing a 5000K 83CRI emitter, comparing with a XP-G2 S4 2B and other leds

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djozz
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You have been busy! Nice work and comparison. The result looks suspiciously close to my sliced result of post #106: good tint shift but not the expected increase of die luminosity. 

I'm not sure what's to blame. Could indeed be dedoming quality, but it may be caused by a difference between the Nichia and Cree phosfor recepies as well: the photon recycling causes a different spectrum that is more towards red and is thus measured lower. Or the Nichia phosfor mixture is saturated at a lower light intensity. What really happens in the different dies is easily beyond my expertise and may actually be extremely complicated

Let's hope it's just dedome quality and a succesful method pops up soon Smile

Kloepper Knife Works
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I’m starting to get the hang of what tools to use and how to get the dome off these. Only screwed up 2, and 2 good ones now. One thing I notice is that these are just really ugly in pictures compared to real life. You’ll be able to tell from the side profile picture that the top of the die is actually quite clean and flat, contrary to the head on picture which makes it look like there are chunks of silicone still on the die. Weird.

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A better side on view showing how flat the surface is. Takes some precision razor work to slice the last stuck bits off.

Jubeldum
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Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
Here’s a beamshot comparing the dedomed Nichia NVSW219C @ 5.7A vs a dedomed XP-G2 S4 2B running direct drive. Both are focused for highest lux in 1504’s. I got a reading of 326kcd from the dedomed Nichia vs 463kcd for the XP-G2. The colors are fairly accurate.

It feels like there’s more to be had out of this LED, perhaps more dedoming attempts are due.

I like the color of the one on the left. Is that the Nichia?

Kloepper Knife Works
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Yes it is. I’ll edit the post, I should have had that bit of info in there.

Kloepper Knife Works
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A Nichia NVSW219C on the board with an XP-G2 S4 2B next to it, both dedomed.

Tom E
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Excellent work djozz and Dale! I gotta get some of this. I know I'm late to the party, been seeing things, just didn't get the whole picture till I read through this.

I've been frustrated with the de-domed XP-G2's for a long time now - hope we can find a good solution with good results to de-dome these.

pilotdog68
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Dale?

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

Kloepper Knife Works
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pilotdog68 wrote:
Dale?

I’m pretty sure Dale is DBcustom.

Kloepper Knife Works
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I put a stainless collar on the 1504 with the Nichia. With the collar it makes 383kcd. A 17.4% increase.

DB Custom
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Tom got excited and missed that it was Henry doing the de-domes. lol

Y’all all know how easy it is on these forums to get discombobulated and post a comment slightly wrong, or a lot wrong, now don’t ya? Silly

Tom, I haven’t done any testing to speak of on the Nichia other than wire 4 of to a harness and run em ragged. Wink

Jubeldum
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Kloepper Knife Works wrote:
Yes it is. I’ll edit the post, I should have had that bit of info in there.

It’s nice to know that the Nichia has a nice tint when dedomed. The one on the right has Dean Martin’s complection Big Smile

Tom E
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DB Custom wrote:
Tom got excited and missed that it was Henry doing the de-domes. lol Y'all all know how easy it is on these forums to get discombobulated and post a comment slightly wrong, or a lot wrong, now don't ya? Silly Tom, I haven't done any testing to speak of on the Nichia other than wire 4 of to a harness and run em ragged. ;)

Actually I thought I was staying with the tone of the thread, as earlier. You were the first to post results in a real light build/mod, so I thought, and went thru hoops to get the 219C early on. I know djozz, of course, did the incredible testing and presentation - again, phenomenal effort!

I ended up ordering a few from Cutter, because I saw other LED's of interest you don't find at MtnE or IOS: XM-L2 U4 1A and XM-L2 U2 3D. The AUS dollar prices are a bit scary, but once you see the PP transaction with the currency conversion to USD, not too bad, in AUS dollars (total US: $62.83). I should have gone over $100 AUS though (stupid me), to get the free shipping...

  Name Unit Price Quantity Total
  Cree XML-2 Cool White U2 3D 6.99 3 20.97
  Cree XML-2 Cool White U4 1A 7.29 3 21.87
  Cutter-NVSL219C-20-E5 4.69 6 28.14
  Sub Total: 70.98
  Shipping: 14.10
  Handling: 3.40
  Grand Total: 88.48
finges
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Ok, I just put one of these in a S2+ with FET+1 driver and I’m seeing 7,5A with 25Rs at 4,05V :bigsmile:

Actually, this is a little bit too much according to the chart in the OP.

Using a protected Keeppower 3400mAh cell (this is a non IMR cell) at 4,08V I get 4,85A.

Before I swapped the emitter it had a dedomed XP-L V6 3D in it, with this LED I was seeing around 4,8A with the 25R.

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^ Nice.  How would you compare the output of the two (as best you can based on memory and not direct side by side comparison)?

finges
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The dedomed emitter really has a lot more throw but a not so nice tint.

I compared it with a BLF A6 with 5A tint. Both have nearly the same reflector so they are about the same regarding throw.

In the A6 I have to use IMR cells to get the maximum from the emitter but with the 219C I can use standard high capacity cells.

I really like the 5A tint so the 219Cs are a little bit to cold for me. They are around 5000k.

But this are first time impressions. I will see how I like this emitter. I have a few lights where I want to try this emitter. One small AA light, one small AAA light and also in a triple with a 18500 battery.

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Thank you for your impressions finges.  I like 5A tints too, but my wife is very partial to cool tints.  I'm hoping this emitter may be a happy medium for us as I like the 219B cooler tint.

SciFiFreak
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  1. Purchase BLF A6
  2. Purchase Nichia 219C
  3. Put 219C in A6
  4. Admire tint in low modes
  5. Go TURBO!
  6. Experience “Oh crap!” moment when 219C blue-shifts
  7. Experience “Oh crap! Oh crap!” moment when the switch goes mushy and doesn’t work
  8. Quickly unscrew tailcap
  9. Calmly put everything down and vow to re-asses tomorrow
djozz
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SciFiFreak wrote:
# Purchase BLF A6 # Purchase Nichia 219C # Put 219C in A6 # Admire tint in low modes # Go TURBO! # Experience "Oh crap!" moment when 219C blue-shifts # Experience "Oh crap! Oh crap!" moment when the switch goes mushy and doesn't work # Quickly unscrew tailcap # Calmly put everything down and vow to re-asses tomorrow

djozz wrote:
*the 219C has the lowest voltage of the bunch, and so much lower than the XP-G2 that it is more efficient at all currents. The voltage is even significantly lower than the Cree XM-L2 (0.25V ! lower at 6A). This makes the 219C very easy to use in single li-ion flashlights, it will even require current regulation (polish up your Qlites!), with FET-drivers it may draw more current than you would like!

I never saw a clear blue-shift so you went over 10A there Laughing

ImA4Wheelr
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^ I think it will shift at lower current if heat sinking isn't as good as your set up.  I put a 219C in a TN31 a couple nights ago.  I did a decent job of installing it, but could have done a better job.  I used a MaxToch DTP MCPCB that was just big enough diameter to clear the reflector base.  When I went up through the modes it dramatically shifted and dimmed some on the highest mode.  When I went directly from standby to the highest mode, it would start out strong and properly tinted and then shift and dim smoothly to a more purple color.  When I would switch back to the next mode down, the tint would smoothly return to normal.

The highest mode on my TN31 is probably somewhere in 6 to 7 amps territory.  I didn't measure at the time.

SciFiFreak
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djozz wrote:
*the 219C has the lowest voltage of the bunch, and so much lower than the XP-G2 that it is more efficient at all currents. The voltage is even significantly lower than the Cree XM-L2 (0.25V ! lower at 6A). This makes the 219C very easy to use in single li-ion flashlights, it will even require current regulation (polish up your Qlites!), with FET-drivers it may draw more current than you would like!

I recall reading that but didn’t expect the results I got. Oh well. It’s just further proof that a FET is the wrong driver for this LED. I think I have an Omten left in my parts bin so I can at least repair my A6.

djozz
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If it turns blue immediately after switch-on, the quality of the heatsinking is not involved, if it turns blue only after couple of seconds, heat sinking may have an influence.

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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
... The highest mode on my TN31 is probably somewhere in 6 to 7 amps territory.  I didn't measure at the time.

If you bypassed the resistors to get the 6-7A, wondering if the XM-L2 Vf was an influence for the 6-7A, then with the low Vf of the 219C, the amps kicks up. Just a thought, dunno for sure how that TN31 driver works with the resistor mods we make. Initially modding the TN31, we added resistors, then I believe vinh was the first to bypass them, and we all changed to the bypass method - well proven, seemed to hold up well. I did several each way.

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^ Good point.  Since that TN31 driver is also voltage limited (on output), maybe the higher Vf of the XM-L2 was restricting current.

I will check that out when I go into the light next time.   Might be this weekend.

I can say the 219C with it's dome created a nice beam profile and tint.  Throw was not stellar.  It measured some where around 150 - 160kcd (I think it was 156), but I didn't put any effort into focus.  Just wanted to get a general feel for what it would do.

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That shows the 219C really has low enough forward voltage to get as much current as one wants with one cell. Time to stack more 7135s on a Q Lite. Direct drive turbo is for Crees!

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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It sounds like the 219C should do okay with a FET as long as it only uses low-amp cells like the NCR18650A. I think. Does this sound right?

I want to put one in my CNQG brass 18650, but it only has room for a single-sided driver… so that means 4×7135 or a FET+1. Does a FET+1 and NCR18650A sound like a safe combination?

djozz
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Nichia did an evil thing: stacking is back from the grave Evil

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BTW, where does all that extra voltage burn off… in the FET itself? In the emitter? Somewhere else?

led4power
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With DD drivers extra voltage is burned off in LED,since DD is just low resistance switch;with linear drivers extra voltage is burned off in driver itself.

djozz
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ToyKeeper wrote:
Does a FET+1 and NCR18650A sound like a safe combination?

Just did a very quick and dirty check with a 219C, FET driver and a NCR18650B at 4.12V: 5.45A

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