A Perfect Dedome?

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comfychair
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Yeah, the 'silicone bits left behind' are really loose and not stuck well, and not gummy or sticky, so they come away easy. I haven't had one yet that left anything on the die itself, only around the base, but I don't trust the crumbly bits to stay there and don't want them falling off later and dancing around in the reflector. I clean off all of it (even under the bond wires - not for the faint of heart) with the tail-end of a ziptie angle cut to a very sharp point, and a good magnifier. The pointy-ziptie tool is flexible enough at the tip that you can poke at the phosphor and not damage it. The silicone bits really flake away very easily and you don't have to go near the bond wires if you want, only stuff on top of the phosphor itself will affect the beam (and the gasoline method doesn't leave bits on top of the phosphor).

But, like Tom I'm only leaving them in long enough for the dome to come off, then doing the rest by hand. I suspect if you left it in for ~24h it would all come off on its own.

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comfychair wrote:
I don’t get it. Why are so many trying to come up with something that ‘works better’ than something that just works?

Well, if you don’t own a vehicle like quite some people living in cities do these days, getting gasoline isn’t that easy and cheap. Depending on local regulations you may need to buy a proper container (=canister) to get it at the gas station.
They also may have a minimum quantity to buy (here often 2 liters). It may also be illegal to store that gas in your apartment – or at least against one’s rental agreement.
I kind of get your point, but please don’t assume that a solution is the best for all only because it works best for you.
Someone might be happy to know that he can use a bottle of acetone from the dollar store instead, even if a nice bath in ROZ95 would be (way) more effective. Wink
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Just checked on mine at the 1hr.50min. mark and the dome was barely dangling, I flung it off onto the floor with one little fling! There are still little bits of stuff on there, so I put it back in the gas ‘til I decide what to do next. What to do next? I don’t have a sprayer bottle for the alcohol, maybe swish it around a bit in an alcohol bath? Do I need high pressure? Thanks again!

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dave_ wrote:
comfychair wrote:
I don't get it. Why are so many trying to come up with something that 'works better' than something that just works?
Well, if you don't own a vehicle like quite some people living in cities do these days, getting gasoline isn't that easy and cheap. Depending on local regulations you may need to buy a proper container (=canister) to get it at the gas station. They also may have a minimum quantity to buy (here often 2 liters). It may also be illegal to store that gas in your apartment - or at least against one's rental agreement. I kind of get your point, but please don't assume that a solution is the best for all only because it works best for you. Someone might be happy to know that he can use a bottle of acetone from the dollar store instead, even if a nice bath in ROZ95 would be (way) more effective. ;-)

So someone living in your area would be familiar with all those issues, right? Are there any auto garages, motorcycle shops, small engine repair places around? Go there, explain what you're doing, ask if they can add some gasoline to the little bottle you bring in and keep it for you overnight. Don't act like this is a planet where gasoline doesn't exist.

comfychair
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tallboybass wrote:
Just checked on mine at the 1hr.50min. mark and the dome was barely dangling, I flung it off onto the floor with one little fling! There are still little bits of stuff on there, so I put it back in the gas 'til I decide what to do next. What to do next? I don't have a sprayer bottle for the alcohol, maybe swish it around a bit in an alcohol bath? Do I need high pressure? Thanks again!

Spray bottle just helps knock off any looser bits, it's not necessary as long as you can dilute away all the leftover gasoline. Cleaning off every last bit of the silicone isn't necessary either, as long as the bits aren't loose enough to fall off later.

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I use a cheapo squeeze bottle with ispropyl, bought the bottle from FT of course! This one: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10003544/1261001-booster-flux-bottle-with-funnel-and-needle. It's not a sprayer, but I squeeze it out forcibly directly on the emitter and star for de-dome cleanups.

dave_ - all's good to find alternate methods - I understand gas is not convienent for everyone, so maybe there is something as good out there that can be purchased and stored easier.

 

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Bad news…the 3 tiny wires are all broken…I never touched the thing either! Gas soak, then swished in alcohol, then blown on by me mouth. Discuss…{8^(

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Never had that happen before after I switched to using gas... I've broken them using other methods, and even by pressing on/bumping the dome without trying to de-dome. But, I leave them in the gas until the dome has fully lifted off on its own, don't know if that's the root cause there or not. Those wires are embedded firmly in the silicone, and they are awfully fragile.

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Yes, they look like hairs…only thinner. I can’t imagine what part of the procedure broke them though, maybe I flung the dome off too vigorously!

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Wow - never happened to me before either, flick'n or swish'n maybe...

tallboybass
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M-m-maybe I blow, fling, swish harder than I thought…?! Shocked

What’s the brightest stock C8 you know of, Tom? Saw a XM-L2 U3 @ Aliexpress… http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEWEST-ARRIVALS-1800Lumens-UltraFire-C8-CREE-XM-L2-U3-Type-Pure-White-Light-7000K-CCT-LED/932570585.html

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[quote=tallboybass]M-m-maybe I blow, fling, swish harder than I thought...?! Shocked What's the brightest stock C8 you know of, Tom? Saw a XM-L2 U3 @ Aliexpress... http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEWEST-ARRIVALS-1800Lumens-UltraFire-C8-CREE-XM-L2-U3-Type-Pure-White-Light-7000K-CCT-LED/932570585.html[/quote]

Boy, that's a tuff one. Maybe the LightMalls C8's with the U3 or XXM-L2 U2, I believe (thread on those, but don't think any real lumens measurements). For stock, you'd have to go with a direct drive model - I know LightMalls C8's used to be. The XinTD C8 is great, but amp restricted to 3 amps.

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Wouldn’t the XM-L2 U3 be ‘theoretically’ brighter than the XM-L2 U2 or the XM-L U3?

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tallboybass wrote:
Wouldn't the XM-L2 U3 be 'theoretically' brighter than the XM-L2 U2 or the XM-L U3?

Yes - in theory, but you asked about stock C8's, so, an under-driven XM-L2 U2 will not be as bright as a well drive XML U2. Please check the LightMalls XM-L2 C8 thread - best info there. I'm thinking I read the XML U3 was a dud, and the XM-L2 U2 looked pretty good. The eBay advertised XM-L2 U3 may not be real, not sure. Problem is if no measurements or comparitive beamshots, can't tell.

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Well everyone seems quite happy with their lightmalls.com C8’s, that’s for sure!

I feel bad that my first modding of a flashlight went south, but it must be a sign…gonna try not to do that anymore (actually, now that I think about it, my first flashlight modding was grinding the keychain nub off an ITP A3 so it’ll tailstand! Wink ).

comfychair
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It's like racing - if you never crash, you're not trying hard enough. Big Smile

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comfychair wrote:
Don’t act like this is a planet where gasoline doesn’t exist.

Well, I really don’t.
And I also don’t act like one solvent is holy, above all others, and anyone who even tries a different one is a bloody heretic.
That position would be surprisingly familiar to you, hm? Silly

You said that you did not understand why other people would want to experiment with other solvents.
I tried to show you how gasoline may be a quite inconvenient substance to buy and handle for some people, while other as good solvents might be easy and cheaply available to them.
This concept is really not hard to understand, and if you still don’t, I cannot help you. Sorry.

comfychair wrote:

So someone living in your area would be familiar with all those issues, right?

I think quite a lot people in my area are familiar with those issues. I’m not one of them, I’m in the lucky position to have a properly vented cellar, enabling me to store up to 5 liters of fuel.(yes, this is actually firmly regulated with byelaw)
It might surprise you, but it’s not about me.
I’m thinking of people in a similar situation. After reading posts like that from tolight, they just might find a bottle of Limonene for 3 bucks in the art shop they walk by every day to work and be happy.
If it was for you, that post would not exist because the perfect solvent is already found. You would rather send them on a some km bus drive to the next auto garage.
I’m sorry, but I am really unable to understand the issue.

Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m thankful for this thread and the gasoline methode. Before that I de-domed with heat and/or less potent solvents. Also a straight forward process, but it takes quite some time. It also takes some minute motor skills and a lot of patience to free the die surface but leave the bond wires within it’s silicone bed.
Compared to that, a gasoline bath really is the perfect methode. I just thought it would be in the spirit of this thread to enable others to get comparable results with solvents easy to access.

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is it possible to tell whether the wire insulators are made from silicone by looking at them? or are there other tests to find out?

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I tried the gasoline method for the first time on 3 emitters. It worked great and all three came out perfectly clean after the alcohol rinse off. Thanks Tom E and the other contributors for this great tip.

One thing though, Its probably not related to the gasoline. The tint of all 3 emitters did not seem to warm up and seemed greenish. Maybe the emitters were that way before. I had not used them in a long time. Is anyone else out here using this method having a similar experience?

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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
I tried the gasoline method for the first time on 3 emitters. It worked great and all three came out perfectly clean after the alcohol rinse off. Thanks Tom E and the other contributors for this great tip. One thing though, Its probably not related to the gasoline. The tint of all 3 emitters did not seem to warm up and seemed greenish. Maybe the emitters were that way before. I had not used them in a long time. Is anyone else out here using this method having a similar experience?

Well I've always seen them turn more neutral. Don't know what your tint was to begin with, but I try to use 1A's to 1C's, preferably 1A, better still is a 0D. I haven't seen greenish colors though, but I did accidentally dedome a XM-L2 T6 3C, and wow did it look warm, but I'd call it a rich yellow. Most of my de-domes were XM-L2's though - did a couple of XP-G2's and believe I've seen the same pattern.

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I am saddened….apparently I’m the only one who has screwed up the gas dedoming process. Makes me want to try again, but…not, you know? There’s no way I physically touched the emitter, had to be from the flinging or blowing to get remnants off after alcohol swish. Oh well… Sad

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tallboybass wrote:
I am saddened....apparently I'm the only one who has screwed up the gas dedoming process. Makes me want to try again, but...not, you know? There's no way I physically touched the emitter, had to be from the flinging or blowing to get remnants off after alcohol swish. Oh well... :(

When I flick off the dome, I always do it from the side opposite the wires. I am very paranoid, resulting in being very careful when handling these de-domed LED's. I constantly check with a 10x (listed as 30x) lighted magnifier (from who else? - FastTech) when working on them. I never attempt to clean up the side with the wires, actually 2 sides. On those sides, I'll only push off material that is on or over the edge of the square LED base - again, very carefully.

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That’s the thing, I never touched it physically! Would it even be possible to break the wires by flinging or blowing? I thought not, but results don’t lie. Must not have respected the fragility of these wires…

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Okay, here is how I did it:

Put some cellulose thinner into a glass.
Then take a string and use it to hang the star with the led on it into the cellulose thinner in the glass (head first).
After that put the cap on to fix the string.
Should look like this:

While you wait about 45 mins, pan (?) it from time to time carefully and slowly.

The dome should fall off within an hour.
Then get it out and put it on kitchenpaper to let it dry.

Thats it. Worked perfectly everytime.

Toppel

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tallboybass wrote:
That's the thing, I never touched it physically! Would it even be possible to break the wires by flinging or blowing? I thought not, but results don't lie. Must not have respected the fragility of these wires...

Yes, entirely possible, if the silicone hadn't been softened all the way through and it was still intact surrounding the bond wires. Leave it in longer until the dome floats completely off on its own, it won't hurt a thing.

I have one that just as an experiment has been soaking for around 3 weeks and maybe twice a week I take it out, rinse it off, and test it. No change from how it worked after the initial ~6 hour bath that removed the dome.

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comfychair wrote:
Leave it in longer until the dome floats completely off on its own, it won’t hurt a thing.

Makes sense, thanks. That’s not the first time my lack of patience has come back to bite me! :_(

God help me, I’m thinking about getting another C8, with XM-L2 U2 or U3 emitter…and driven Hard.

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I finally killed one, but the gas didn't do it. I had the bright idea to try rinsing in acetone instead of iso and even though it was just a quick dunk the phosphor went goofy and peeled up at the corners. LED still works, I managed to get all the phosphor off and now have a dangerously bright XML2 T6 UV emitter on a 16mm Sinkpad. Steve

So, don't do what I did. Rinse in iso only.

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comfychair wrote:

I finally killed one, but the gas didn’t do it. I had the bright idea to try rinsing in acetone instead of iso and even though it was just a quick dunk the phosphor went goofy and peeled up at the corners. LED still works, I managed to get all the phosphor off and now have a dangerously bright XML2 T6 UV emitter on a 16mm Sinkpad. Steve

So, don’t do what I did. Rinse in iso only.


this somewhat illustrates why i think solvents other then gas should be tried, i am curious if the gasoline in contact with the phosphor reduces its output at all, if someone did a test between several dedoming methods/solvents i would be very interested in the results

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

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Very Fast…….. :bigsmile:

"You are making progress if each mistake you make is a new one."

Remember - Most great discoveries start with maki

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Bort wrote:
comfychair wrote:

I finally killed one, but the gas didn't do it. I had the bright idea to try rinsing in acetone instead of iso and even though it was just a quick dunk the phosphor went goofy and peeled up at the corners. LED still works, I managed to get all the phosphor off and now have a dangerously bright XML2 T6 UV emitter on a 16mm Sinkpad. Steve

So, don't do what I did. Rinse in iso only.

this somewhat illustrates why i think solvents other then gas should be tried, i am curious if the gasoline in contact with the phosphor reduces its output at all, if someone did a test between several dedoming methods/solvents i would be very interested in the results

Well, the rule is double the throw (in kcd), and then some little more - so, maybe 105%-110% increase at throw in kcd. I know guys using other methods get this result - Manual Man here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/20287). So for example, I've done 3 Small Sun T08's, de-domed in gas. They all go from 95-100 kcd to 200-210 kcd. My results show this same approximate percent increase, so I'm thinking nothing is lost at all, if there is, it's little. Now with XP-G2's, I've had some disappointing results of not even getting 100%, but for some reason it seems like I'm losing amps after de-doming XP-G2's - maybe they are that much cooler and drives up Vf, dunno.

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