17mm & 20/26/27mm single-sided DD/FET driver release: A17DD-SO8 / A20DD-SO8 / etc

731 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA
17mm & 20/26/27mm single-sided DD/FET driver release: A17DD-SO8 / A20DD-SO8 / etc
Watch out for Zener build compatitibility issues in this version. There is a simple workaround for the current version (v024), see post #319 here for details. Also in post #319 and 320 you’ll find two different revised WIP board layouts which should both remove the need for any workarounds.

Here is a high power single sided FET driver. From my limited testing, fresh battery performance is similar to a regular BLF17DD. The driver is Zener ready. Note that this driver is not intended for a DPAK FET such as the (unavailable) Vishay 70N02; instead it uses an LFPAK56 (AKA Power-SO8) type FET like PSMN3R0-30YLD.

The primary goal for this driver was to create something which fit better in flashlights with retaining rings. The Supfire L6 is an example, it’s huge retaining ring prevents the use of two-sided driver. To that end this driver has absolutely no components on the spring side.

Secondary goals:

  • 1mm component keepout around the edge
  • Easy to build: reflow or hand solder easily (large 0805 sized pads)
  • Zener ready ..sort of. See note at top of OP.
  • Offtime ready
  • Put my mark on it Wink

More info:

  • All the above notwithstanding, this driver is still simply a derivative of the 17DD+7135 [WIP] driver I’ve been working on over here. The layout of the entire top half of the driver is the same.
  • As of v024 I used a 1.5mm thick GND ring on top and bottom where possible via polygons. Cereal_killer’s post #44 in the DD+7135 thread got me thinking and this is where I’m at for now. There is still only 0.5mm exposed. I feel like we’ve got plenty of strength now! Good thinking C_k.
  • D1/R3 is only designated through a triangle and a white line marking the cathode. The triangle has been updated slightly since v020 because it was too large and not sharp. The cathode mark was not present in v020 but should be present in v024.
  • Like the DD+7135 driver, this driver does have a reverse-polarity protection diode but bypasses the diode for the voltage divider. Due to this we are able to use any diode desired. Ideally we use a protection diode with an extremely low Vf in order to maximize gate voltage!
  • The exposed spring pad is 8mm. Scraping will reveal up to 11mm of copper. GND does not start until 15.5mm.

I’ve now built two of these using this component list:
C1 – 4.7uF [GRM21BR61E475KA12L]
R1 – 22k 0805
R2 – 4.7k 0805
D1 – SOD-323 & SOD-723, assorted
OTC – 1uf [C2012×7R1E105K125AB]
MCU – ATTINY13A-SSU
FET – PSMN3R0-30YLD

I have not assembled one with a Zener, but the pads are intended for an SOD-123 sized component. You may wish to use a higher capacity C1 than what I used, 10uF is fine as well. I used what I had on hand at the time. Based on some recent testing I did 3uF definitely does not work, 5uF and 4.7uF do work. I never tested 4uF. My 22k R1 replaces the 19.1k R1 due to the change in how the divider hooks up to B+. 22k is not guaranteed to be perfect, but it’s close enough for me and for now. Other more prolific modders may identify a closer value which appeals better. I’m happy with the cutoff I got from those components and a stock STAR offtime v1.3 firmware.

In testing with an OG XM-L of unknown bin I repeatably achieved 9A+ at the tailcap with a freshly charged Samsung INR18650-15M. The firmware uses JonnyC’s turbo rampdown mod, so current quickly falls of course. Here’s the dropin guts for that:

Finally, here are the OSH Park images.

17mm version:

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/TrEN1wLB

20mm version:
w/ 1mm exposed copper on GND rings.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/YeNzvLPx

Credits to those who got the ball rolling on this stuff such as Mattaus and comfychair. And to the East-092 of course. Wink

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Edited by: wight on 01/10/2015 - 23:32
wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

Reserved.

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 5 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 15781
Location: Amsterdam

Very nice driver, thanks for the effort,  I want those! I will have to find that FET first. 

Also, and this is of course very important Wink , this driver is extremely goodlooking with that FET placed in an angle and the triangular +pad in the middle Smile

bushwhacked
bushwhacked's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 20:18
Posts: 537
Location: NovaScotia, Canada
djozz wrote:

Very nice driver, thanks for the effort,  I want those! I will have to find that FET first. 

Also, and this is of course very important Wink , this driver is extremely goodlooking with that FET placed in an angle and the triangular +pad in the middle Smile

+ 1 it’s the triangle that did it for me too.

I can’t wait to use these.

P60dropins.com (just a redirect for now)

WarHawk-AVG
WarHawk-AVG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 06:47
Posts: 5071
Location: H-Town

Oh wow…the DIE size of that MOSFET is almost the same size as the ATTiny13…daggum

So small yet so powerful

AWESOME!

What a great build! Just keeps getting better and better…Nice!

M4D M4X
M4D M4X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 03/19/2014 - 05:17
Posts: 7575
Location: Austria (GMT + 1)

nice build!

 

already member of M4DM4X.com ?

the best deals are waiting for YOU!

 

before you buy elsewhere mail me: MARTIN@M4DM4X.COM - i will try to save you money!

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 days ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

Sweet! Thumbs up for single sided.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Ledsmoke
Ledsmoke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 days ago
Joined: 08/08/2011 - 16:05
Posts: 1995
Location: Denmark

I've had luck taking the 3 amc nanjg variety drivers and removing the amc chips and then solder on some ??? ( I forgot what the package size that the amc chips are) and using that. 

Just had to use 2 of them to achieve 12 A because the mosfet I used was a 6 amp max thingy.

I'll be looking to acquire some of these in the near future.. Would you be able to easily make a 20mm version too? (For Jacob A60 and I suppose others Wink  )

~ Ledsmoke ~

Dutch humor:

[quote=djozz]

 I do not think that the BLF-community ben

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

djozz wrote:

Very nice driver, thanks for the effort,  I want those! I will have to find that FET first. 

Also, and this is of course very important ;) , this driver is extremely goodlooking with that FET placed in an angle and the triangular pad in the middle :)

bushwhacked wrote:
1 it’s the triangle that did it for me too.

I can’t wait to use these.

WarHawk-AVG wrote:
Oh wow…the DIE size of that MOSFET is almost the same size as the ATTiny13…daggum. So small yet so powerful. AWESOME!

What a great build! Just keeps getting better and better…Nice!

M4D M4X wrote:
nice build!
Rufusbduck wrote:
Sweet! Thumbs up for single sided.
Thanks for the compliments folks! ..I agree, the triangle is clearly the source of this driver’s Qi. Wink

@ WarHawk-AVG – the FET’s plastic package (tisk tisk) is actually smaller than the ATtiny13A’s package. It’s not as wide or as long. When you include the length of the metal tab and pins I think the FET ends up being approximately 0.5mm longer, that’s it! They definitely fit on each other’s pads.

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

Ledsmoke wrote:

I’ve had luck taking the 3 amc nanjg variety drivers and removing the amc chips and then solder on some ??? ( I forgot what the package size that the amc chips are) and using that. 

Just had to use 2 of them to achieve 12 A because the mosfet I used was a 6 amp max thingy.

I’ll be looking to acquire some of these in the near future.. Would you be able to easily make a 20mm version too? (For Jacob A60 and I suppose others Wink  )

Yes, I can easily increase the size to whatever is appropriate. 20mm, anything else? I’ll take a look soon. I also took an unsuccessful stab at 15mm following a pre-release request. I was unable to get all the components to fit on one side in 15mm as I recall, so I moved the 3 lowest profile components to the bottom here.

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

WarHawk-AVG
WarHawk-AVG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 06:47
Posts: 5071
Location: H-Town

wight wrote:
@ WarHawk-AVG – the FET’s plastic package (tisk tisk) is actually smaller than the ATtiny13A’s package. It’s not as wide or as long. When you include the length of the metal tab and pins I think the FET ends up being approximately 0.5mm longer, that’s it! They definitely fit on each other’s pads.
DOH…right right Wink
scottyhazzard
scottyhazzard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/09/2011 - 19:02
Posts: 1127
Location: Northern California

Very, very nice work! So we can use the parts list from the DD17 or should we use your list of parts? From mouser?

Really classy with everything on one side.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

scottyhazzard wrote:
Very, very nice work! So we can use the parts list from the DD17 or should we use your list of parts? From mouser?

Really classy with everything on one side.

You may use the same parts you’ve been using with two exceptions:
  1. Most important: a DPAK sized FET will not fit. You must use LFPAK56/Power-S08, such as PSMN3R0-30YLDMouser / Digikey / Farnell (for the rest of the world).
  2. If you choose to use 19.2k for R1 instead of 22k you will need to adjust your LVP in the firmware before flashing. If you are using a pre-flashed ATtiny13A with LVP you must use 22k for R1. 19.1k will result in LVP allowing VERY low voltages. I highly recommend that you use 22k and be done with it. Digikey / Mouser / Farnell (for the rest of the world)

Some of our more determined friends here may prove that a DPAK FET can be made to fit upside down with some major filing. Basically the same filing you’d use to install it on a Nanjg-105c. IMO it won’t be worth the effort when you can install the DPAK FET on a Nanjg-105c or you can just drop in an LFPAK56 FET on my PCB no muss, no fuss.

If anyone wants to contribute any good eBay / Aliexpress links I’m all ears. Wink Not everybody can buy through these distributors.

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 days ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

Here’s a link for 10 pcs.

Edit- couldn’t find data on this particular FET.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Ledsmoke
Ledsmoke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 days ago
Joined: 08/08/2011 - 16:05
Posts: 1995
Location: Denmark

That is just awesome. 

Really looking forward to ordering and trying to assemble some of these.

~ Ledsmoke ~

Dutch humor:

[quote=djozz]

 I do not think that the BLF-community ben

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 days ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

The problem with eBay links is it’s quite often hard to find the relevant data sheet for that particular FET and Rds on values can vary from absurdly low 1-2 mohms to more than 10mohms. Mouser at least gives data sheet links for each FET listed so you know what you are getting and will show the values for 4.5Vgs and 10Vgs as well as showing a graph from which you can interpolate behavior between 3-4V. Once again, the eBay crap shoot.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

Rufusbduck wrote:
Here’s a link for 10 pcs.

Edit- couldn’t find data on this particular FET.

I think this is it: http://datasheet.elcodis.com/pdf/6/6/60632/ph4030al115.pdf

As you mentioned Vgs is important. In this case the Vgs graph just stops at 3.75v (where it’s still only <5milliohms but appears to be close to going vertical). Frankly that looks pretty similar to the FET I’m using as well as pretty similar to the DPAK AOD510.

Actually….

What about PSMN1R2-25YL? It’s late at night and I can’t go find the answer to how much gate charge the ATtiny13A can handle, but I think that that FET has a low enough gate charge (Qg) at C in stock, that’s not the same thing so watch out for that!

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

So, uh, here’s a thing I’ve never seen before…. http://cdn.vicorpower.com/documents/datasheets/Picor/ds_PI5101.pdf
It’s not actually smaller than LFPAK56, but the specs are crazy. Also they cost $5/ea, heh. And this is the only part I see on Digikey with that form factor.

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

fellfromtree
fellfromtree's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 11 months ago
Joined: 07/25/2014 - 15:14
Posts: 470
Location: spelunking

Saw this design the other day when poking around oshpark wight.. Didn’t know it was yours- I was thinking that’s kind of neat one sided board

scottyhazzard
scottyhazzard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/09/2011 - 19:02
Posts: 1127
Location: Northern California

Sweet, wight. Thanks.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

scottyhazzard
scottyhazzard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/09/2011 - 19:02
Posts: 1127
Location: Northern California

Wight, I noticed your solder joints are pristine on this. Did you use a mask for solder paste or apply with a syringe?

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 36 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20313
Location: Heart of Texas

So Wight, will that Picor FET replace what we’ve been using, with much lower Rds on? Looks like it’d be a very neat and trim package to produce a slimline driver with great characteristics.

And yes, really like the looks of your new driver! I have 4 of those FET’s, will probably be trying a couple of those…just ordered a bunch of re-stock in the traditional caps and resistors wouldn’t you know it!

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

Ledsmoke wrote:

That is just awesome. 

Really looking forward to ordering and trying to assemble some of these.

20mm version:
w/ 1mm exposed copper on GND rings.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/YeNzvLPx

Added to OP. I made no changes other than expanding the diameter and increasing the exposed copper from 0.5mm to 1.0mm.

fellfromtree wrote:
Saw this design the other day when poking around oshpark wight.. Didn’t know it was yours- I was thinking that’s kind of neat one sided board
Glad you like it fellfromtree. You should see the mess it’s based on. Wink Check out the OP here, it shows v008 of the design which spawned this: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/32318

scottyhazzard wrote:
Sweet, wight. Thanks.

Wight, I noticed your solder joints are pristine on this. Did you use a mask for solder paste or apply with a syringe?

You’re welcome. I’m using a syringe of Kester EP256 (Easy Profile 256) from CML Supply. If you click through to the big version of the first pic in the OP (the picture with the tweezers) you’ll see that my application isn’t really perfect – R2 has a lot more solder than R1. Due to the low quality of the picture what you probably can’t see is that I reworked D1 with my soldering iron after the reflow. I was out of normal sized diodes so I used the tiny SOD-723 size. It blew around during the reflow process and was hooked up correctly but kind of askew and unattractive. That’s why those pads appear slightly shinier. To better illustrate, here are 3 pictures showing the components laid out without paste, then the components partially placed after adding paste with the syringe, and finally the initial results of the reflow (before rework). Sorry about the focus in the second pic, it’s on the back of the PCB rather than the front.


Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 36 sec ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20313
Location: Heart of Texas

Is anything different needed for a Zener application other than adding the Zener to the board?

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

scottyhazzard wrote:
Wight, I noticed your solder joints are pristine on this. Did you use a mask for solder paste or apply with a syringe?
BTW, I forgot to ask: what are you using?

DBCstm wrote:
So Wight, will that Picor FET replace what we’ve been using, with much lower Rds on? Looks like it’d be a very neat and trim package to produce a slimline driver with great characteristics.

And yes, really like the looks of your new driver! I have 4 of those FET’s, will probably be trying a couple of those…just ordered a bunch of re-stock in the traditional caps and resistors wouldn’t you know it!

The Picor is fairly long/big and fairly expensive. It’s also a no-leads package, making it potentially difficult for novices to work with. I think that it won’t replace anything for now, but we should keep it in mind in case the need for such an extreme FET should come up. There is also the supply issue: AFAIK there is literally only this single FET which uses that package. If Picor stops making production runs of these things then any designs based on it are squashed. Frankly I haven’t even looked at it that closely, I suspect that the specifications probably preclude this use anyway. Yeah, take a look at the maximum Drain-to-Source voltage: it’s 5v. It wouldn’t be able to handle the spikes from single-cell DD use I think, and it certainly can’t handle 2s use.

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

DBCstm wrote:
Is anything different needed for a Zener application other than adding the Zener to the board?
Zener application works just like you’d expect. Use the same part (SOD-123 size) and be sure to replaced D1 with an appropriate resistor.

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 3 days ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

I think you use a different value for R1 on the Zener version.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

Heh, good point RBD. For voltage monitoring on the Zener version (which I have not built) I’d think you’d want R1 to be in the 47k – 50k range. EDIT: (for 2s applications)

Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 12248
Location: LI NY

This is totally awesome btw... I haven't totally absorbed this all yet, but seems quite easy. Some Q's:

  • WTH is a "OG" XM-L and HTH (how the hell) can it take 9A?
  • Is this PSMN3R0-30YLD FET as good or better than the classic Vishay 70N02? I'm unclear bout this - seems lower resistance? More amp capability?

 

  • How did you make this driver sexier than hell? Smile
  • Why are you making it so tempting to order your boards and a bunch of parts? Smile
  • Why are you making me feel like a fool for not keeping up with all these going's on's? Smile

Those LED wire pads are huge!! Is that some sort of new record? Can we use 14 AWG LED wires? Smile

wight
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4968
Location: Virginia, USA

Tom E wrote:

This is totally awesome btw… I haven’t totally absorbed this all yet, but seems quite easy. Some Q’s:

  • WTH is a “OG” XM-L and HTH (how the hell) can it take 9A?

  • Is this PSMN3R0-30YLD FET as good or better than the classic Vishay 70N02? I’m unclear bout this – seems lower resistance? More amp capability?

  • How did you make this driver sexier than hell? Smile

  • Why are you making it so tempting to order your boards and a bunch of parts? Smile

  • Why are you making me feel like a fool for not keeping up with all these going’s on’s? Smile

  • Those LED wire pads are huge!! Is that some sort of new record? Can we use 14 AWG LED wires? Smile

  • Thanks Tom E! Remember, this driver has only seen limited testing so far, so I don’t have all the answers.
    • Original Gangsta. It’s just a plain Jane XM-L. This one was previously in a SF dropin. I used two different HF meters to measure the tailcap current, several times. Current falls immediately, I’d estimate that less than 1s is spent over 9A. This is due to both the battery sagging and the “immediate turbo rampdown” firmware. This weekend I’ll get the dropin wrapped with foil and shoved medium-tightly into a host. I’ll run it for the full 30s+ and see whether it survives and how hot the host gets.
    • It’s unclear to me as well. The Vishay 70N02 datasheet is missing some critical graphs that I’d use for an easy comparison. It appears that the PSMN3R0-30YLD may be better for 1s applications. For Zener builds I think it’s pretty clear that performance should be identical for the two FETs.
    • Pseudo-triangles Trade secret.
    • Dark evil plan to bankrupt modders. Kindness.
    • ! Now you know, and knowing is half the battle?
    • I don’t have 14AWG; I guess I’ll have to try 12AWG and see? Really you should be able to install whatever you need, but I think that soldering to the triangular-ish center pad may be the most fiddly thing about assembling these.

    Break’s over for now. That was a long one! wight catchup Wink Wink Wink
    list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

    DB Custom
    DB Custom's picture
    Online
    Last seen: 3 min 36 sec ago
    Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
    Posts: 20313
    Location: Heart of Texas

    I just yesterday ordered a dozen of these boards and the accompanying stencils to make life easier on me.

    And I just a few moments ago opened a package with a proto board to assemble. Smile So today it’s off to the races! Yippee! Even got a light to mod so it’s a good day. Smile

    Hell can be pretty sexy, so I don’t know about all that, but this is definitely a nice looking board! The one-sided design is VERY appealing!

    Pages