Q8, PMS SEND TO THOSE WITH ISSUES BLF soda can light

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djozz
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Unlike some of the people above I do think that bigger springs made of of thicker wire is the way to go (it will still act as a fuse alright), now that I took a closer look at the shortest spring it does show signs of collapse: part of the spring is discolored and deformed assymmetrically.

You may simply state that this light is not meant to be used with one cell only, but it should not loose its springs if you happen to try that.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

djozz
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It seems like we are slowly discovering how a 20+ amps flashlight should be build. And thusfar we are doing well at it, but still adjustments need to be made.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

DavidEF
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djozz wrote:
It seems like we are slowly discovering how a 20+ amps flashlight should be build. And thusfar we are doing well at it, but still adjustments need to be made.

Yeah, seems light a good characterization of what is going on here. And now that I see the tail PCB again close up, I think thicker springs would be good whether longer (to fix the tube length issue) or not.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

BrianK
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Carry on folks! You’re doing fine!

Who didn’t expect some teething problems? Now is the time to find them.

djozz
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BrianK wrote:
Carry on folks! You’re doing fine!

Who didn’t expect some teething problems? Now is the time to find them.


We hoped to find them all a few prototypes earlier actually, but better late than that all 1500 run into problems.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

kaybi
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Oh well, regardless of how it gets fixed, the important thing is that we found the issue, and honestly, it does not seem all that hard to fix. Either thicker springs or shorter tube are both simple modifications, from a manufacturing perspective.

I just realised that the PCB has holes right beneath the springs. Are those there to facilitate spring bypasses? Nice touch.

The Miller
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how about the big tail spring of the S70S?
13.76mm
4.69mm compressed max, no grinding of metal it just becomes a nice dome with spiral looks

DavidEF
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kaybi wrote:
Oh well, regardless of how it gets fixed, the important thing is that we found the issue, and honestly, it does not seem all that hard to fix. Either thicker springs or shorter tube are both simple modifications, from a manufacturing perspective.

I just realised that the PCB has holes right beneath the springs. Are those there to facilitate spring bypasses? Nice touch.


An argument could be made that changing the springs messes with the BOM, and if the other springs have already been bought, they’re now wasted (unless they can be used for another product). Shortening the tube is the really easy change from a manufacturing perspective, and saves material as well, which might add up to being able to squeeze more lights out of the same amount of stock.

EDIT: Note to the Q8 Team. Don’t take me any more seriously than you want to. I’m (mostly) just yappin’. Whatever decisions are made, I’m sure will be the right choice.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

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Shortening the tube does sound like a very practical option assuming they have not locked down the CAD design, but I see no reason they would have at this point.

whitecitadel
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@The Miller
Please can you add me to the list, hope its not too late to join?

Thanks.

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That spring looks about perfect, Miller! With its length and 9mm travel, with the current tube-length it compensates for the shorter batteries while still enabling longer ones. And it handles more current before collapsing.

Am I the only one who thinks that it is easier to change a type of spring (which is available at Thorfire) than to change a battery tube design?

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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I like the idea of S70 springs. But the small springs need to be longer a little too to make contact both spring with short batteries also.

The Miller
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whitecitadel wrote:
@The Miller
Please can you add me to the list, hope its not too late to join?

Thanks.


Welcome to BLF!
Yes will update list later

Djozz I think so too.
We know they have these springs sourced and that they work fine.

DavidEF
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The Miller wrote:
whitecitadel wrote:
@The Miller
Please can you add me to the list, hope its not too late to join?

Thanks.


Welcome to BLF!
Yes will update list later

Djozz I think so too.
We know they have these springs sourced and that they work fine.


But springs are a source of added resistance in the circuit, and longer springs will mean greater losses. If the springs are lengthened, we’ll need another round of Q8 samples to be tested. And, if Thorfire has already sourced the shorter springs, they will be left holding onto stock that they may not be able to use, unless they have other lights that use those springs. Plus they may have to order more of the longer springs in order to make all of our lights if they don’t keep thousands of them lying around. If that happens, it will add more waiting time.

Also, just thought of this, the solder pads for the springs on the tail PCB’s are too small for those bigger springs. They will have to re-design the tail PCB.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

whitecitadel
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The Miller wrote:
Welcome to BLF! Yes will update list later

Thanks, and thanks for welcome as well but I have been lurking around for a number of years… Just noticed only single digit posts so clearly didn’t say much so far!

The Miller
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Argh and I just notice you are a BLFer much much longer then me, sorry automatic response with 1 or 2 posts members asking to be put on the list Wink

Yeah David you are right.
Sigh
The S70 springs are nice and thick though
Looking for a solution that requires the least redesign

My two springs where I emptied 2*2 30Q on turbo on have indeed sagged about half a mm

Tom E
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There is a basic problem of accommodating all lengths of cells with a spring on only one side. If we get into longer or stiffer springs, I hope the long protected cells won't suffer. I found some struggle getting the body to thread with protected cells in there now.

Of course mine will get bypasses:

  • no high amps going through the springs (no heat to deform them)
  •  don't have to worry about getting good spring compression to reduce resistance
  • I can't see how an upside down battery would make contact to the brass ring, so using the springs as fuses, I just don't see. Even if it was forced (solder blob on the Batt- end?), the traces on the tail PCB make good fuses - I've seen this before in Shocker battery carriers.

If we do want to improve on the springs, two issues:

  • stronger, stiffer steel (tighter fitting short cells, can handle the heat better)
  • increase conductive coating thickness (handles high amps better, probably less heat generated)

I do think (agree to what was said) the inner springs are too short. They should come right up to the top of the outer spring. This would probably help as well.

Dimking
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Just received my VTC6’s from GB. They are dated June 2016 (C6AYF16J), which I think is not an issue.

Now. My. want. da. flashlight.
Smile

fritz15
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Tom E wrote:
[…] stronger, stiffer steel (tighter fitting short cells, can handle the heat better) […]

Unfortunately the stronger the steel the higher the resistance of the material usually gets.

KawiBoy1428
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Would it not be easier or simpler just to change the length of the inner spring, to make or keep contact with the outer spring, the little bend on the outer spring would act as a keeper, to contain the inner longer spring. Sorry if this has been already suggested.

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

Tom E
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fritz15 wrote:
Tom E wrote:
[...] stronger, stiffer steel (tighter fitting short cells, can handle the heat better) [...]
Unfortunately the stronger the steel the worse the resistance of the material usually gets.

As I understand, the spring steel is not conductive - it's the coating on the steel that conducts. I've smoked springs before, and the coating is what burns off and the remaining spring steel doesn't conduct well at all. I've even taken off the coating with a soldering iron - same thing, where the coating is off and get no conductance.

dekozn
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Hehe what kind of high did you get from smoking the springs Wink

BrianK
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The Miller could you put me down for a 3rd one? Thanks!

hank
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Quote:
they will be left holding onto stock that they may not be able to use

That’s the definition of a sunk cost. People have great difficulty letting go of those, but it’s important not to let them tie you down to sticking with a bad decision.

Mstevens113
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Looks like the rush to get batteries is premature…

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hank wrote:
Quote:
they will be left holding onto stock that they may not be able to use

That’s the definition of a sunk cost. People have great difficulty letting go of those, but it’s important not to let them tie you down to sticking with a bad decision.


That’s true. But, in this case, I happen to think shortening the tube is a better decision in almost every way, and the “sunk cost” NOT becoming an issue is just one of the many reasons. Innocent

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

The Miller
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Asked Thorfire if the smaller of the double springs can be made 2.5 to 3m taller so even short cells connect with them both.

Yokiamy
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The Miller wrote:
Asked Thorfire if the smaller of the double springs can be made 2.5 to 3m taller so even short cells connect with them both.

mm i hope Big Smile

Thijsco19 wrote:

a regular symptom of flasholism Big Smile

“Flasholism is the most severe form of flashlight use and involves the inability to manage your flashlight use habits. It is also commonly referred to as flashlight use disorder. Flashlight use disorder is organized into three categories: mild, moderate and severe. Each category has various symptoms and can cause harmful side effects. If left untreated, any type of flashlight use can spiral out of control.”

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This might explain the unexpectedly high readings of the protected GA cells tested.

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The Miller wrote:
Asked Thorfire if the smaller of the double springs can be made 2.5 to 3m taller so even short cells connect with them both.

That would make them connect to the ceiling Big Smile

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied – chains us all, irrevocably."

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Sofirn SF36 /// Thorfire VG10S /// Sofirn C8F

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