Q8, PMS SEND TO THOSE WITH ISSUES BLF soda can light

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JasonWW
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I think the picture showing v1.3 might be throwing people off. Maybe that image can be replaced with this one.

http://i.imgur.com/msNLgin.png

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I don’t understand why do so many people despise long click off….

The Miller
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JasonWW wrote:
I think the picture showing v1.3 might be throwing people off. Maybe that image can be replaced with this one.

http://i.imgur.com/msNLgin.png


will try right way
done thanks!

Agro, one can probably find somebody who love a feature and somebody who hates it. It is all personal and there is a Dutch saying that translates to “there is no point in arguing over personal tastes” and that is the same here.
I don’t think it is intuitive and using several different flashlights the long press for off (or IMHO even worse on) is something to remember.
Were I only using 1 flashlight it would not matter at all.
It is just odd that light A uses long press for off, others for strobe and now the Q8 for ramp. I prefer it for ramp, one sees right away what is happening, and release to keep it on a level close to where it started, click hold to return to it So the long press of Narsil does not clash with other long presses.
One of the reasons the MF01 feels cumbersome is that I went to low mode instead of turning it off so many times, it just annoys the heck out of me.
But you see, lots of “I” and “me” in this, it is cool if you love it!

Tom E
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Here's the switch PCB after hot air removing the parts:

The parts - resistor is unmakred but it's 16.9K, LED on left got damaged by me, but still works fine:

Cleaned up backside:

Cleaned up front side:

It's been on all night and still working, so I assume this is a good fix.

WalkIntoTheLight
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Agro wrote:
I don’t understand why do so many people despise long click off….

It’s not my favorite, but after I got a few lights that did it that way, I got used to it. It does have some advantages, such as switching modes is fast & easy with a single click. But turning off the light with a long click isn’t intuitive or obvious, especially for a non-flashaholic.

If you go the other way (short click off, and long-click to change modes), then changing modes isn’t obvious for non-flashaholics.

It seems like Narsil is attempting a kind of hybrid solution for the modes interface. I’m not sure that’s very intuitive, either.

I don’t know what the “best” interface is, unless we’re talking about a single-mode light.

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Agro wrote:
I don't understand why do so many people despise long click off....

Because it's long? smile Getting back to ol' school, a click turns something on, you'd expect a click to turn it off - quite simple.

The UI/UX designers call it symmetry.

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bistro-HD ready for trialing on Q8  (Update, present version works for TA SRK board, will update when I have Q8 circuit information)

 

Symmetry is not a reason I care about in the slightest.  Personally I actually just don't like single-function eswitches, and this is why.  You can long-press-off a click switch with a short action. Or you can short press a click-switch with a short action.  The switch itself is just more functional, and now with OTSM caps, it's capable of about anything an e-switch is too.  For me, I want to be able to bump the modes up.  I almost never reverse down anyway.  

 

Anyway, for anyone interested, I just re-worked/tested the eswitch build in bistro-HD.  No lockout yet.  That's next. It might take a little fiddling to coax into HD, but I have a plan to try. It should I think work on the Q8 as is now, unless there are some pins on the Q8 that do something I don't know.  It's setup for a standard tripple-channel TA e-switch board.  The right build to use is the bistro-eswitch-TA-HD.hex  Not yet tried in a real light, so experimental, but it bench tests fine.  You want the 1.5 build for now.

 

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With moon mode that will last 40 days, who needs to turn a light off anyway?  

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The Miller][quote=LightGuru wrote:
First 500 of new Q8 ready.
Production in full swing again.
Confirmed shipping via Banggood warehouse to cope with the coming holiday.

I got my shipping notice on the 29th for both my lights. Anybody on the East Coast US with a shipping timeline report? Has “2 weeks” been the average like most BG stuff? All my new batteries are here and are lonely.
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My Q8 (first batch) has been scheduled for delivery tomorrow . Finally Wink

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Yes there seems to be about two weeks between email it is shipped and delivery.
But with the holidays now it is not clear at all, just think “it comes when it comes” Wink

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I’ve already got my first Q8, from the first 500 batch, but I’d like to order an “improved” Q8 from the new run. How can I get one?

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Tom E wrote:

Here’s the switch PCB after hot air removing the parts:



The parts – resistor is unmakred but it’s 16.9K, LED on left got damaged by me, but still works fine:



Cleaned up backside:



Cleaned up front side:



It’s been on all night and still working, so I assume this is a good fix.

So you believe it is just a solder issue? You reused the same parts? Did this pcb have the brighter led on one side, or was it just the flakey led.
Just curious of your final thoughts.

Bug

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emarkd wrote:
…I’d like to order an “improved” Q8 from the new run. How can I get one?

Use your code again to pre order a 2nd. It’s still working.
And like for the 1st one…be patient. Big Smile
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Dusty wrote:
So you believe it is just a solder issue? You reused the same parts? Did this pcb have the brighter led on one side, or was it just the flakey led. Just curious of your final thoughts.

Sorry, earlier post had more details. Yes - reused same exact parts. Didn't track the LED to the side, but this board always had one brighter than the other. It's pretty well known at this point that LED to LED variations will result in uneven brightness with them wired in parallel like this. You need one resistor per LED to get more even results.

As far as root cause, I cant say for certain -- may be some issue on the PCB that was dependent on the reflow/solder work, or could have been some contaminant that was somewhat conductive under low heat or movement, etc., or might be the quality of the reflow. Dunno for sure the exact cause, but I'd say it wasn't the parts and don't think it was the wiring or driver side, so in this area of the switch PCB and solder. 

Dusty
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Tom E wrote:

Dusty wrote:
So you believe it is just a solder issue? You reused the same parts? Did this pcb have the brighter led on one side, or was it just the flakey led. Just curious of your final thoughts.

Sorry, earlier post had more details. Yes – reused same exact parts. Didn’t track the LED to the side, but this board always had one brighter than the other. It’s pretty well known at this point that LED to LED variations will result in uneven brightness with them wired in parallel like this. You need one resistor per LED to get more even results.


As far as root cause, I cant say for certain — may be some issue on the PCB that was dependent on the reflow/solder work, or could have been some contaminant that was somewhat conductive under low heat or movement, etc., or might be the quality of the reflow. Dunno for sure the exact cause, but I’d say it wasn’t the parts and don’t think it was the wiring or driver side, so in this area of the switch PCB and solder. 

Thanks Tom

I did find your other post, after I had posted. This thread moves so fast, It’s getting hard to find things.

Bug

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Got a shipping notification on the 29th.

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My Q8 has now “Arrived at Sort Facility HONG KONG INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT”. It’s actually moving still! Maybe it will get out before the holiday?

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fixed it
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Tom E wrote:
Dusty wrote:
So you believe it is just a solder issue? You reused the same parts? Did this pcb have the brighter led on one side, or was it just the flakey led. Just curious of your final thoughts.
Sorry, earlier post had more details. Yes – reused same exact parts.

I just touched the tip of my iron the both ends of both LEDs and behold: there was light again! 30 minutes later, no more light. Really weird. The voltage across the LEDs is also lower now than before the fix.

Edit: Took some measurements. When the LEDs work, Vf is 2.23V. 30 minutes later, it is back down to 1.5-1.6V and there is no more light. It’s like there’s a bridge which slowly rebuilds itself while the LEDs are on. I’m leaning towards “faulty” LEDs.

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The Miller wrote:
The Narsil post has a link to the Narsil used. The pic says 1,3 and yes it is actually NarsilM 1,0 If there is a pic with the key ma ual things in it I gladly change it but I haven’t seen it and all can click on Toms google drive

From my notes:

The numbering of the firmware isn’t straight and we have a name change.

Narsil NarsilM Timeline
2016-07 Narsil v1.12
2016-09 Narsil v1.1 (because only two digits blink out)
2016-09 Narsil v1.2
2016-10 fork to Narsil Triple
2017-04 Narsil v1.3
2017-05 NarsilM v1.0 (Narsil Multi, combines Narsil 1.3 and Narsil Triple) It is used in the BLF Q8.
[ yet unreleased: NarsilM v1.1 (BLF GT Buck driver support merging) ]

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fixed it wrote:
Tom E wrote:
Dusty wrote:
So you believe it is just a solder issue? You reused the same parts? Did this pcb have the brighter led on one side, or was it just the flakey led. Just curious of your final thoughts.
Sorry, earlier post had more details. Yes - reused same exact parts.
I just touched the tip of my iron the both ends of both LEDs and behold: there was light again! 30 minutes later, no more light. Really weird. The voltage across the LEDs is also lower now than before the fix. Edit: Took some measurements. When the LEDs work, Vf is 2.23V. 30 minutes later, it is back down to 1.5-1.6V and there is no more light. It's like there's a bridge which slowly rebuilds itself while the LEDs are on. I'm leaning towards "faulty" LEDs.

Yes - I had the same result, works for a bit then fails again. When they are in a failed state, check for a short from grnd to V+ coming in to the resistor - I swore the DMM indicated a short, repeatable.

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@Tom E
Is the Q8 the first lamp for sale with Narsil/NarsilM on it?
(besides Emisars)

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fixed it wrote:
When the LEDs work, Vf is 2.23V. 30 minutes later, it is back down to 1.5-1.6V and there is no more light.

So the voltage from the MCU is a steady 2.2v, but somewhere a slight short develops around the switch area which causes the voltage to drop down to 1.6v?
That’s interesting.

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fixed it
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JasonWW wrote:
fixed it wrote:
When the LEDs work, Vf is 2.23V. 30 minutes later, it is back down to 1.5-1.6V and there is no more light.

So the voltage from the MCU is a steady 2.2v, but somewhere a slight short develops around the switch area which causes the voltage to drop down to 1.6v?
No, there’s about 4V coming to the switch assembly (0.2V drop from the diode is about right). The voltage across the 15K resistor is 4V minus the LED Vf. I measured as high as 2.4V on the resistor when there is no light, and 1.7V when there is light.

That means higher current when there is no light. Which makes sense if the current is going around the LED somehow. Next thing I’ll try is removing or moving one of the LEDs which seems awfully close to the switch.

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joechina wrote:
@Tom E
Is the Q8 the first lamp for sale with Narsil/NarsilM on it?
(besides Emisars)

think so
JasonWW
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fixed it wrote:
No, there’s about 4V coming to the switch assembly (0.2V drop from the diode is about right). The voltage across the 15K resistor is 4V minus the LED Vf. I measured as high as 2.4V on the resistor when there is no light, and 1.7V when there is light.

That means higher current when there is no light. Which makes sense if the current is going around the LED somehow. Next thing I’ll try is removing or moving one of the LEDs which seems awfully close to the switch.


Okay, I see.

I don’t know very much about the chemistry involved in making an LED, but it seems like these little switch LEDs are possibly acting funny when they’re not fed enough current. Maybe they start to leak current past their internal parts. IDK. I’ll leave the technical stuff to others. Lol

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I think it is (first production Narsil), the Q8 has the latest version of Narsil and Tom worked really hard getting it done and tested.

I have an earlier variant that I flashed and put in a little FandyFire Rook that uses 4 clicks to lock out… the Emisar D4 and D1 take 6 clicks to lock out! 4 clicks to the D4/D1 (thinking I was locking it out) puts it in a momentary switch tactical mode. I’m presuming the Q8 will also have the 6 click lockout? Or will it be 4 like the earlier versions?

Edit: One thing that confused me was that when I clicked the D4/D1 6 times for lockout (after doing some reading/research) the lights blink 4 times to indicate lockout. Unlocking they blink twice. Seems somehow not intuitive for the number of blinks to not match the required clicks. But now I know. Big Smile

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joechina wrote:
@Tom E Is the Q8 the first lamp for sale with Narsil/NarsilM on it? (besides Emisars)

Yes, as far as I know.

I'm all confused which thread I'm in, but when the LED's failed to light up. I detected a short from grnd to V+ in to the board, to the resistor. Verified it several times. I think the full parts removal and reflow fixed it all up. The light has been fine now for 27 hours and still running.

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Flintrock wrote:
I actually just don’t like single-function eswitches… You can long-press-off a click switch with a short action. Or you can short press a click-switch with a short action. The switch itself is just more functional, and now with OTSM caps, it’s capable of about anything an e-switch is too.

OTSM is a nice evolution of the clicky power switch, but I doubt we can write off e-switches yet. For example, a reverse clicky power switch, even with OTSM, cannot keep the LED lighted while the button is held. It’s fantastic at “click to turn on or off”, but it cannot do the other half of the Q8’s core interface — “hold to ramp”. The single most defining feature of the Q8’s UI isn’t really possible with a power disconnect switch.

The switch types can try to emulate each other, but I doubt they’ll ever by fully interchangeable. I implemented ramping on a clicky switch, but it’s not the same.

Flintrock wrote:
It should I think work on the Q8 as is now, unless there are some pins on the Q8 that do something I don’t know. It’s setup for a standard tripple-channel TA e-switch board.

It’s probably worth mentioning that the Q8 doesn’t use a triple-channel driver.

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fixed it wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
fixed it wrote:
When the LEDs work, Vf is 2.23V. 30 minutes later, it is back down to 1.5-1.6V and there is no more light.

So the voltage from the MCU is a steady 2.2v, but somewhere a slight short develops around the switch area which causes the voltage to drop down to 1.6v?
No, there’s about 4V coming to the switch assembly (0.2V drop from the diode is about right). The voltage across the 15K resistor is 4V minus the LED Vf. I measured as high as 2.4V on the resistor when there is no light, and 1.7V when there is light.

That means higher current when there is no light. Which makes sense if the current is going around the LED somehow. Next thing I’ll try is removing or moving one of the LEDs which seems awfully close to the switch.

OR it means that there is additional high resistance adding on in series with the fixed resistor. Voltage across resistor, plus voltage across LED must add up to about battery voltage, less a little bit (i.e. the voltage of the MCU pin, which I anticipate will be roughly battery voltage minus about 0.3V.)

If Vled+Vr doesn’t add up to the full amount, additional voltage drop must be occurring elsewhere (poor joint, internal PCB problem etc.)

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