Oshpark Projects

1808 posts / 0 new
Last post
chouster
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 02/20/2014 - 15:05
Posts: 746
Location: germany

pilotdog68 wrote:
WarHawk-AVG wrote:
FYI for the OSHPark DIY folks

http://docs.oshpark.com/services/two-layer-hhdc/

2 Layer Half-Height Double-Copper

A special stackup intended for a variety of high-power and low weight circuit designs. This service features a 0.032” (0.8mm) thick PCB, and includes 2oz (2.8mil, 70um) copper. That’s half the thickness of our standard boards, and with twice the copper!

Thin board, thick copper…imagine the current J)

P.S. Pilotdog…been watching your shares on OSHPark…wowzer…you are off the chain on designing man…great job!


Thanks for the compliment!

For drivers the thickness was fine, (but still an upgrade to the copper) but the half-thickness is fantastic for the tailcap boards. I’m ordering some right now!

Even the reduced thickness for drivers could give some space where it’s crucial, I guess.

So when can we see a µC-LTC board from you PD :bigsmile: ? Please?

Nah, just kidding. What’s the LTC Board you’d go with right now? I’d like to give this a try too.

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

What do you mean, µC-LTC ?

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

chouster
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 02/20/2014 - 15:05
Posts: 746
Location: germany

A lighted tailcap controlled by a small MCU. Something like mashm did, but with one or two proper boards for it. Yeah, and while you’re at it, please add a smd-fuse as a short circuit protection like LegolasGT did. Yeah if we could have them all combined, would be neat, don’t you think so? But again, I was just joking around. I’ve yet to try out any kind of LTC, so which of your boards should I try?

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

I can draw a board in eagle, but I don’t know how to design a circuit. Mashm’s solution is awesome, but I would need some help to do that. I’m not really sure what the point of the fuses is though. Seems like it would add a whole lot of resistance.

Of my boards, it depends how many extra parts you want to buy. I suggest reading the LTC OP and last few pages of the thread to see the newest stuff

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

chouster
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 02/20/2014 - 15:05
Posts: 746
Location: germany
pilotdog68 wrote:
I’m not really sure what the point of the fuses is though. Seems like it would add a whole lot of resistance.

Yes, thought that too. But I liked the idea of an additional safety feature for high-drain-unprotected-cells-power-build applications. I think he came up with that in combination with his 3,7V->6V 3A-out boost driver, maybe it made more sense in an electronics-way with that driver.

Fritz t. Cat
Fritz t. Cat's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 6 months ago
Joined: 05/07/2013 - 00:33
Posts: 2535
Location: Si Valley

Since there will be less glass to conduct heat, you should probably cover more area with copper when laying it out.
I just did a mod. where the driver had to sit under the pill, as sometimes done on SK-68s. A thinner board would have saved me some filing.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

What is our collective experience on OSH Park’s removing copper from the edges of the board? We are all aware that this is normally done. They require a 15mil setback for traces, but since our copper pours are not really traces it’s standard for us to specify copper right up to the edge of the board. Somewhere along the line a little copper is removed in order to prolong the life of the router bits used to cut the boards. How much are we talking about? I’ve just checked several boards using a feeler gauge and to me it looks like less than 0.2mm in all cases.

Tom E wrote:

From my recent experience, an EE advised me the cap (C1) should be after the diode. [snip] The original Nanjg 105C and Nanjg AK-101 have the cap after the diode. Also an old BLF DD driver I had was like that as well – cap after the diode. But with BLF DD 1.0, the cap is before D1 and from then on, seems like we kept it that way.  Anyone have any ideas on this? Maybe it didn’t have any effect at the time, and was easier to layout?

If you didn’t get your answer elsewhere already, the cap was moved due to a problem with voltage boosting upsetting the MCU. Comfychair, with help from other members, explored this pretty thoroughly in the FETs and gate resistors – scope images thread. Since the thread is now devoid of pics, here’s a link that shows the pics with the posts: Oops – looks like I’m having a connectivity issue right now so I can’t finish renaming this at the moment. For now you can go here and click on the link with a size next to it.

WarHawk-AVG wrote:
FYI for the OSHPark DIY folks http://docs.oshpark.com/services/two-layer-hhdc/ 2 Layer Half-Height Double-Copper J)

P.S. Pilotdog…been watching your shares on OSHPark…wowzer…you are off the chain on designing man…great job!

Exciting stuff on both counts. @pilotdog68 – looks like you’ve come a long way since realizing what vias were for! Big Smile Big Smile Wink (#12)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

wight wrote:
@pilotdog68 – looks like you’ve come a long way since realizing what vias were for! Big Smile Big Smile Wink (#12)

lol it’s been a big year for me! I spent a couple months without a job, and what can I say… I got bored. Eagle was my outlet.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

Silver linings, eh? Eagle being an outlet… yeah, no matter how much time you need to get rid of, Eagle is ready to use it all up.

I’m definitely interested in the illuminated tailcap business you folks have been playing with. I just haven’t had a chance to dive in yet.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

wight wrote:
I’m definitely interested in the illuminated tailcap business you folks have been playing with. I just haven’t had a chance to dive in yet.

Come on in, the water’s fine :bigsmile:

It’s a part of the big fancy groupbuy that’s about to go to the ordering phase. So in a month or two we will either have a few hundred raving fans, or a few hundred angry customers.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

fatboy
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 11/17/2012 - 08:18
Posts: 224
Location: MN

sub

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 34 min ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7699
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

pilotdog68 wrote:
wight wrote:
I’m definitely interested in the illuminated tailcap business you folks have been playing with. I just haven’t had a chance to dive in yet.

Come on in, the water’s fine :bigsmile:

It’s a part of the big fancy groupbuy that’s about to go to the ordering phase. So in a month or two we will either have a few hundred raving fans, or a few hundred angry customers.


Most likely a couple raving fans, a few hundred quietly content fans, and a couple dozen noisy, angry customers that will steal the show and try to make it look like a failure. Tired I’m expecting to be one of the happy ones. Wink

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 5 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 17763
Location: Amsterdam

The thicker copper that oshpark offers now will wick away heat to the side better. Hmm, that could be interesting for ledboards too. There are many leds for which a dedicated board is not easily available, Nichia119, LuxeonZ, LuxeonC color line, to name a few. These can be made at Oshpark by using large poors to the side from the solder pads for heatsinking. Nothing for high wattage, any MCPCB will work better, but for low output builds it could work.

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

djozz wrote:

The thicker copper that oshpark offers now will wick away heat to the side better. Hmm, that could be interesting for ledboards too. There are many leds for which a dedicated board is not easily available, Nichia119, LuxeonZ, LuxeonC color line, to name a few. These can be made at Oshpark by using large poors to the side from the solder pads for heatsinking. Nothing for high wattage, any MCPCB will work better, but for low output builds it could work.


With heavier copper and shorter/thinner vias, maybe it’s time to revisit the solder-filled-via “DTP” idea.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 34 min ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7699
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

pilotdog68 wrote:
djozz wrote:

The thicker copper that oshpark offers now will wick away heat to the side better. Hmm, that could be interesting for ledboards too. There are many leds for which a dedicated board is not easily available, Nichia119, LuxeonZ, LuxeonC color line, to name a few. These can be made at Oshpark by using large poors to the side from the solder pads for heatsinking. Nothing for high wattage, any MCPCB will work better, but for low output builds it could work.


With heavier copper and shorter/thinner vias, maybe it’s time to revisit the solder-filled-via “DTP” idea.

+1 I’d like to see some unique configurations made that Noctigon and Sinkpad won’t touch.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

In my testing solder filled DTP works better than a normal fiberglass MCPCB does, but it is very sensitive to reflow and getting the right amount of solder (you need enough to fill the vias, but you don't want it to all be wicked away from the LED's thermal pad), as well as keeping the backside as flat as possible.  Definitely usable for a hobbyist type situation, but definitely not for full-on production work.  A copper DTP MCPCB is obviously superior, but getting them made in custom sizes is very expensive to get started (the initial setup and tooling is expensive!).  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

Pablo E.
Pablo E.'s picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/08/2015 - 13:54
Posts: 234
Location: Spain (GMT+1)

Hi,
I am working on this board, do you have any advice to improve it?
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/jZxjYbXN

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

I recommend that you avoid placing vias directly on pads. Other people have already learned that the hard way.

Best practices also dictate not putting vias under components at all, but that’s just to make the circuit easier to read visually.

I have not looked closely at the layout. One thing which you may want to consider is how much of a pain it is for someone to do the Zener mod.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

You all know where this is going Cool.  You can use this to program the tiny attiny25/45/85 MU MCUs.  As usual, the spacing and via sizes are suitable for standard header pins.  Like the other board, I have labeled the USBASP pins for easier hookup (I'm not the only one to ever mix those pins up, am I? Sealed)

Oshpark Link.

 

 

 

 

As usual, I have already tested it and it works.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

Every one has their own design choices, but given the choice I also never like to have exposed pads directly against the ground ring because the solder always goes there, and often can pull the component in that direction as well.

When designing a circuit, it is always important not to think not only about the circuit functionality, but about ease of assembly and installation.  Often, due to space constraints, we have to sacrifice a little bit to make things fit, but it is always important to keep the end goal in mind (actually building the driver and being able to use it in a flashlight). 

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

MRsDNF
MRsDNF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/22/2011 - 21:18
Posts: 13473
Location: A light beam away from the missus in the land of Aus.

RMM wrote:
You all know where this is going Cool.  You can use this to program the tiny attiny25/45/85 MU MCUs.  As usual, the spacing and via sizes are suitable for standard header pins.  Like the other board, I have labeled the USBASP pins for easier hookup (I'm not the only one to ever mix those pins up, am I? Sealed)Oshpark Link.

 

 

 

 

As usual, I have already tested it and it works.

Sorry for the question but how does this aid in programming the MCU's?

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

MRsDNF wrote:
Sorry for the question but how does this aid in programming the MCU's?

Well, I spent hours trying to get my programming clip on one of those MCUs and it didn't work, so I called up Dale and he told me to put the clip in some liquid nitrogen to try and shrink it down a bit.  Next, I e-mailed Steve who machined me a beautiful polished aluminum adapter to try and program the chip, but that effort also proved to be futile. Tongue Out  Just joking.  

This is for the smaller leadless package of the attiny25/45/85 MCUs.  You can't program them with a clip, and commercially available programming devices are fairly expensive, so this is an easy alternative.  You could also put breakout pads/pins on the driver and solder wires to them to program on a driver, but I find it easier to program them beforehand and save the space--since saving space is the only reason I would ever use one of these MCUs.

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

Pablo E.
Pablo E.'s picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/08/2015 - 13:54
Posts: 234
Location: Spain (GMT+1)

Thanks both of you for the advices, and welcome back to the forum wight.

@wight
I didn’t know vias may cause problems, i have seen them on pads sometimes and i had assumed that it was ok.
Better to learn it the easy way :bigsmile:
Right, i have overlooked zener mod, i will see what can be done.

@RMM
Can a component be pulled throught those tiny corners? :~
Anyway that can be solved easily, exposed ground ring is 0.75mm width, so i can shrink it to 0.5mm.
Sure, installation and ease of assenbly will be tested in nexts steps.

MRsDNF
MRsDNF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/22/2011 - 21:18
Posts: 13473
Location: A light beam away from the missus in the land of Aus.

Thanks RMM. I asume they only have four legs? I have components on order to program the Attiny MCU's hopefully with the help of a very patient member her, I hope. Lets hope its not to late to teach an old Moose new tricks.Smile

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

MRsDNF wrote:
Thanks RMM. I asume they only have four legs? I have components on order to program the Attiny MCU's hopefully with the help of a very patient member her, I hope. Lets hope its not to late to teach an old Moose new tricks.Smile

No, these ones have 20 pins, but only 8 that are actually used.  Start with the regular SOIC-8 MCUs.  Smile

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

pilotdog68
pilotdog68's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 05/30/2013 - 23:31
Posts: 6422
Location: Held against my will in IOWA, USA

MRsDNF wrote:

Thanks RMM. I assume they only have four legs?


I think it just looks that way in the oshpark renders. In their render it enlarges the pads to the point of overlapping, looking like one (or 4) big pads instead of a bunch of tiny ones.

My Favorite Modded Lights: X6R, S8 , X2R , M6, SP03

Major Projects:  Illuminated Tailcap, TripleDown/TripleStack Driver

MRsDNF
MRsDNF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/22/2011 - 21:18
Posts: 13473
Location: A light beam away from the missus in the land of Aus.

Wow, 20 pins. It will be an achievement for me to do anything with the 8 pin. I'm starting with the 7135 based drivers.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Pablo E.
Pablo E.'s picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/08/2015 - 13:54
Posts: 234
Location: Spain (GMT+1)
wight wrote:
One thing which you may want to consider is how much of a pain it is for someone to do the Zener mod.

If i understand well how zener mod is done (i am a bit confused with post of different dates, where capacitor is placed before or after diode) i don’t have to tweak anything, zener can be placed just over left side of D1 and C1.

Just a stroke of luck, I designed the board this way, keeping in mind being able to place a C2 for 25/45/85 MCUs.

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

MRsDNF wrote:

Thanks RMM. I asume they only have four legs? I have components on order to program the Attiny MCU’s hopefully with the help of a very patient member her, I hope. Lets hope its not to late to teach an old Moose new tricks.Smile

Aha, I knew something must have changed while I was gone! New tricks!

To better illustrate, here’s a different illustration of RMM’s adapter:

I haven’t used the adapter of course, but I assume that for optimal use solder is lightly wiped across the adapter and allowed to cool. Then one simply presses the MCU against the PCB where it would normally be soldered on. Once you’ve got it in place and held down you can program it normally. Someone may correct me here though. (?)

Pablo E. wrote:
If i understand well how zener mod is done (i am a bit confused with post of different dates, where capacitor is placed before or after diode) i don’t have to tweak anything, zener can be placed just over left side of D1 and C1. Just a stroke of luck, I designed the board this way, keeping in mind being able to place a C2 for 25/45/85 MCUs.
I am not sure that I understand everything you said. The Zener mod is very simple, but due to my time away I had to think about it / double check a bit. The Zener mod requires two additional components: a low-value resistor (such as 200 ohm) and an appropriate zener (such as MMSZ5229B for example). The resistor should be placed between MCU Vcc and Vbat. The Zener should also be attached to MCU Vcc – it will pull the voltage down to the appropriate level. Without the resistor in place the Zener will burn up. See comfychair’s post #9 here using the userscript I posted in my post #104 here for a semi-illustrated semi-guide to the Zener mod.

Unless I am mistaken, this means that for a Zener build a person would replace D1 with the 200 ohm resistor, then place a Zener between the lefthand pad of the resistor and the lefthand pad of C1. I think that this will be a pain as you have things setup now: trying to set a 0603 or 0805 component on those little diode pads will result in the component wanting to walk/spin… probably getting stuck to C1 sometimes. Stacking the Zener on top will probably also be a bit of a pain.

RMM wrote:

Every one has their own design choices, but given the choice I also never like to have exposed pads directly against the ground ring because the solder always goes there, and often can pull the component in that direction as well.

When designing a circuit, it is always important not to think not only about the circuit functionality, but about ease of assembly and installation.  Often, due to space constraints, we have to sacrifice a little bit to make things fit, but it is always important to keep the end goal in mind (actually building the driver and being able to use it in a flashlight). 

Everything RMM brings up here is important and worthwhile to think about. I personally also try to keep my component pads out of my GND ring. As you can see by looking at my drivers, I frequently fail. (a) the components can be pulled toward the ground ring (b) the GND ring can get unwanted solder wicked onto it. Mostly (a) is the big problem IMO: sometimes clearances demand that components stay far away from the edge of the flashlight, not skew on their pads towards the outside. Surface tension with solder is surprisingly strong sometimes and will pull a component right off of it’s pads. 7135’s and FETs are notorious for this, which is why I was very careful to implement a small “dam” of resist on drivers like the A17PZL. Without this the 7135’s will pull all the way to the edge of the GND ring. 2-pad passives are not as bad, but it’s still an issue.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Fritz t. Cat
Fritz t. Cat's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 6 months ago
Joined: 05/07/2013 - 00:33
Posts: 2535
Location: Si Valley

You have the main FET current traces taking up all available space. Why not make all traces, even low current ones, on both sides, as wide as there is room for? That would add a little more to the heat transfer, and maybe the capacitance between sides of the board would protect a little against high frequency switching transients.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

Pages