Emitter Test Results pt4: XML2, XP-E2, XP-G2, and Nichia219! (along with sinkpad tests)

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mattthemuppet
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thanks for all the awesome data Match and I’ll join the others in sadness that you’ll be hanging up your Fluke and integrating sphere Sad

led4power
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Is there Vf vs. current graph for xm-l2 on sinkpad?

Manual Man
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A friend just pointed this out to me: Lightmall are now using these graphs on their XM-L2 product page and claiming “1770 lumens” on some of their XM-L2 torches.

http://www.lightmalls.com/new-led-16mm-6500k-cree-xm-l2-led-emitter
http://www.lightmalls.com/ultrafire-c12-1-cree-xm-l2-5-modes-led-flashli...

Hikelite
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Manual Man wrote:
A friend just pointed this out to me: Lightmall are now using these graphs on their XM-L2 product page and claiming "1770 lumens" on some of their XM-L2 torches. http://www.lightmalls.com/new-led-16mm-6500k-cree-xm-l2-led-emitter http://www.lightmalls.com/ultrafire-c12-1-cree-xm-l2-5-modes-led-flashli...

They prove they can't understand the CREE datasheets too much, "maximum driver current 6200mA". They neither specify the bin of the XM-L2, they don't understand that either.

Actually there are many stores that simply copy the other store and I am sure they don't even understand what they sell, but since it's popular on the forums they got to sell it.

Bort
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Manual Man wrote:
A friend just pointed this out to me: Lightmall are now using these graphs on their XM-L2 product page and claiming “1770 lumens” on some of their XM-L2 torches.

http://www.lightmalls.com/new-led-16mm-6500k-cree-xm-l2-led-emitter
http://www.lightmalls.com/ultrafire-c12-1-cree-xm-l2-5-modes-led-flashli...


since they don’t point out theirs is not a sinkpad (or even mentioning the word sinkpad or massive amounts of heatsinking), i can imagine some non forum person thinking they can buy this and put 6200mA into it then seeing the puff of smoke or potential fire

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

Chicago X
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Manual Man wrote:
A friend just pointed this out to me: Lightmall are now using these graphs on their XM-L2 product page...

I hope Match was compensated appropriately. 

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Tom E
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Anyone know where to find a Vf plot of XML? Want to compare it to XM-L2 - can't seem to find it - these test results are scattered all over the place.

Update: This XML test result was from 2011, before he did Vf's: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/2603, so not sure if XML's were re-tested.

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If this is where the journey comes to a halt your contributions will still remain the yardstick of greatness. 

Thank you for all your work and I hope you still find some amusement in the hobby.

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dthrckt
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Bort wrote:
i can imagine some non forum person thinking they can buy this and put 6200mA into it then seeing the puff of smoke or potential fire

fire? I guess you haven’t killed many LEDs

anyway, lightmalls is way out of line

Nightbird95
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This is one of the most informative threads I’ve read in BLF.

Thank you very much Match for doing all these. Smile

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We’re going to miss you Match. :_( I hope all is going well in your life…

Nightbird95
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FlashPilot wrote:
We’re going to miss you Match. :_( I hope all is going well in your life…

Why? What happened to Match? :~

Bort
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Nightbird95 wrote:
FlashPilot wrote:
We’re going to miss you Match. :_( I hope all is going well in your life…

Why? What happened to Match? :~


he ran out of Matches Shocked

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

DB Custom
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Thank You Match, for all the work you’ve done on these. Excellent source of information and dares us to raise the bar.

Ralphy
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This is great information, i love this forum!

Ralphy

dct73
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Bob Loblaw wrote:
so are these results BS? no response from Match in how long?

BS? I don’t think that’s an appropriate term for a newbie to be using about somebody that has helped this forum as much as Match.

MRsDNF
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Bob Loblaw wrote:
so are these results BS? no response from Match in how long?

I’m not sure what you mean by the question Bob. Why would they as you asked BS? Match is a member here that has given more to this forum than most others. No one stays here forever for whatever reason. Maybe he is ill, who knows, its a fact of life in this virtual world we live in.
I personally hope Match is ok and wish him all the best.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

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rojos
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Bob Loblaw wrote:
so are these results BS? no response from Match in how long?

Match’s results seem to be valid. The BS is the way some people have misconstrued or misused the data.

Match did his emitter tests on a rig that has massive amounts of heatsinking, which he discussed here.

But it seems like some people think or are trying to sell others on the idea that XML2 can be driven to 6A in a small-ish host and expect the same results as Match got on his testing rig. That would be BS.

DB Custom
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I, for one, use Match’s numbers almost daily. I know Engineers that are designing lights that also have this page bookmarked. The numbers are good. The methodology is good. Match did some hellacious work here and a great many of us appreciate it.

If you doubt the numbers, instead of calling bullshit why don’t you do the work and show us your findings? I’m sure we would all appreciate your comprehensive skills used to enlighten us on today’s most modern technology.

Please, we would all like to see a fresh new approach. We will be anxiously awaiting your results…

Tom E
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Bob - you should clarify this - where's your question coming from?

 +1 with Dale, but I'm not gonna get upset bout it - Match's test results represented in this thread and all the others is the "de-facto standard" of our hobby as tech ref data is concerned and nothing has, or probably will, change that.

Calmaja
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Bob Loblaw wrote:
so are these results BS? no response from Match in how long?

What do you mean?
Big Success? Budgetlightforum Standard?
Do you have any idea it take how much effort to provide this data?
Will you provide some data of testing result using different method?

Bob Loblaw
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rojos wrote:
Bob Loblaw wrote:
so are these results BS? no response from Match in how long?

Match’s results seem to be valid. The BS is the way some people have misconstrued or misused the data.

Match did his emitter tests on a rig that has massive amounts of heatsinking, which he discussed here.

But it seems like some people think or are trying to sell others on the idea that XML2 can be driven to 6A in a small-ish host and expect the same results as Match got on his testing rig. That would be BS.


Thanks, Didn’t mean to stir it up. I was just reading some conflicting results and did not mean to offend anyone
Tom E
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No prob - thinking was just a mis-understanding. Match's results may be questioned at times, but it's pretty darn good for what he or anyone had/has to work with. I myself see some things I don't understand, but I'll spectulate it's probably my testing method or result being off, more so than Match's.

One detail lacking in his original posts has been the exact bin/tint of the LED's tested, but since then. that's been clarified in later posts. I believe the XM-L2 was a U2 (Post #40), so for me, I'd be interested to see it tested the same way for a 1C vs. a 1A, for example, to know if they have identical output or not -- always has been a question in my mind... For Match, he's posted he's got to give this testing effort up - too much time and expense, and I can't blame him for that, for sure... The U2 bin has a range of output level spec'd by CREE, so I always wondered if a specific tint would be in the high range or low range, but that's getting pretty nit-picky.

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Hi Match,

I was just wandering if you would be interested in running one of your tests on the new generation SinkPad II so we can get some independent data on these?    I know a guy who could send you some Smile

Just let me know...

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supraspl
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Match, thank you for this awesome data Smile

Every aluminum star I have tested has been terribly unflat. So I have been sanding them flat and polishing to 1000grit US based on Crees recommendations in the CXA product design guide. Do you think this test would be closer with an aluminum star that has been flattened? (I have noticed that copper stars are always much closer to flat)

djozz
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supraspl wrote:
Match, thank you for this awesome data Smile Every aluminum star I have tested has been terribly unflat. So I have been sanding them flat and polishing to 1000grit US based on Crees recommendations in the CXA product design guide. Do you think this test would be closer with an aluminum star that has been flattened? (I have noticed that copper stars are always much closer to flat) !http://www.rollitup.org/attachments/dsc06848a-jpg.2903211/![/quote]

Hi supraspl, match has not been seen for some time on the forum, so if you don't mind I try to answer your question.

I think that match, as he was always  busy improving the thermal paths in his flashlight mods, would also have taken care of good mounting of the aluminium boards, he probably would have noticed if they were not flat and been sanding them.

Regardless that, my and other people's experience is that you might see a small difference in output if the board is not mounted perfectly (because it is not flat, or there's a hole under it and board only rests on the side), as long as there is good metal-metal contact at least partly under the board, the big difference in output at high currents is almost exclusively caused by if or not there is a 'dielectric layer' (non-conductive, non-metal layer) present between the center thermal pad of the led and the metal core of the ledboard.

michael3
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hi, i am new here. i am not new to the topic. but also am no expert. I saw this post and was hoping someone could help me out. I have a nitecore srt6 that was modded by vinh from cpf, he did a fantastic job. the mod was dedoming a xm=l2 u2 and putting a boost on the light taking the max output and making it 4 amps instead of 3. according to him initially it should have boosted my lumens by 200 or 300 otf and a 10% loss from dedoming. with all of that said as far as i can figure that should have given me approximately 1100 otf lumens or a little better on max. but i sent it to be tested and found out that it was only putting out 830 lumens. so someone in cpf said that it was because the 18650’ s even the samsung or panasonic high drain (10 amp +) batteries can’t maintain a high enough voltage for the xm-l2 u2 at 4 amps. they suggested getting lg 4.3v batteries which i did and that seemed to help some. they said it was because of the higher vf of the xm-l2 u2 at 4 amps. which was what brought me here. is there better 18650’s to use? or are there better 18350’s than efest imr or aw imr’s? or if i had someone mod it to 3.5 amp boost instead would that allow for a greater otf lumen? also is there anyone here that is suggested as a good modder of this type? and would it be possible to mod the srt6 to flat regulation at max with a buck boost circuit then have it step down to a specified amp or output? and i probably would not just buy a different light. however that is not out of the question. i just like the srt6 and would prefer to mod it. sorry for so may questions and thank you for whoever responds.

michael3
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my apologies i just realized from reading that the author is a modder. but i am interested in whoever else might be.

djozz
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The main problem asking questions in this thread is that match hasn't been posting for quite a while now.

But concerning the lack of output of your modded light: every flashlight running at high current on a single li-ion will face  the same problem: not enough voltage overhead over the led-voltage. The XM-L2 at 4A needs 3.5V. The Efest IMR battery at 4A has a voltage of 3.6V. Consider a few tenth's of a volt loss in the flashlight (even while vinh usually tries to minimise it) and your flashlight can't maintain the 4A. 

But, this said, you should still see more than 830 lumen OTF, more like 1000 or so. How did you have it measured? I ask this because getting an accurate light flux measurement is not obvious/cheap.

michael3
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thank you for responding, i appreciate it.
i sent my light to jmpaul320 who as far as i can tell has a pretty good set up based on his results of other lights and other peoples post about it. if you know more please let me know. you can pm me if you want.

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