FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public

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riorio88
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Created an account to finally go down this rabbit hole with everyone and to say I’m in for the FW3A!

Ryzbor
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Why no XPL-HI 5D for the 4000K option? It has a great tint and offers some significant advantages over the SST-20.

good tint: Nichia E21A 2000K-7500K except d240 bin, Nichia 219B sw40/sw45, 219C sw303, Cree XPL-HI A/D bins, XHP70.2 5A, Samsung shaved LH351D's, SST-20 FD2, FA3, HA3, .

zak.wilson
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There’s no 90+ CRI XP-L HI cooler than 3000K.

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Ryzbor
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Even the highest CRI and R9 is useless without a good tint, and Maukka’s measurements of the SST-20 aren’t really optimistic.

good tint: Nichia E21A 2000K-7500K except d240 bin, Nichia 219B sw40/sw45, 219C sw303, Cree XPL-HI A/D bins, XHP70.2 5A, Samsung shaved LH351D's, SST-20 FD2, FA3, HA3, .

BurningPlayd0h
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Ryzbor wrote:
Even the highest CRI and R9 is useless without a good tint, and Maukka’s measurements of the SST-20 aren’t really optimistic.

I wasn’t aware that sunlight being above the BBL made it “useless” as a light source. Aesthetically preferring one tint over another doesn’t diminish the color accuracy of a particular LED.

BlueSwordM
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The high CRI and R9 will make it absolutely crush in real life scenarios.

Comparing tints on a white wall is useless. The tint is the SST-20 is good. It’s better than the LH351D, and especially the 219C.

While it may not look as good on a white wall compared to the XP-L HI 5D and even 219b, the SST-20 is plain way better than the XP-L HI in non white wall hunters uses.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
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zak.wilson
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Having actually used an XP-L HI 5D next to an SST-20 FB4, I’m not just going on specs here.

The The XP-L HI looks nicer on a white wall. It’s slightly rosy, while the SST-20 is a bit yellow-green, especially at lower levels. Outdoors, putting the two next to each other, I found things looked washed out with the XP-L HI, and more vivid with the SST-20. Both points also apply to the 4000K LH351D I compared.

Tint can be bad enough that CRI becomes meaningless, but that’s not the case with the 90 CRI bins of the SST-20 and LH351D we’re actually seeing in the wild.

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Ryzbor
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
I wasn’t aware that sunlight being above the BBL made it “useless” as a light source. Aesthetically preferring one tint over another doesn’t diminish the color accuracy of a particular LED.

Sunlight and led light from a torch are incomparable even if the have similar parameters simply due to the angle and the sheer difference in the amount of light.

I’ve let some people, “aware flashlight users”, not enthusiast, compare a R9898 duv +0.001 flashlight to the CRI80 XPL-HI 5D duv -0.002 (or less) from the D4 and almost all of them preferred the 5D so I’m pretty sure of my point.

And of course in woodland positive duv doesn’t really matter and a 219C will look better than a 5D, but I can’t afford buying a flashlight that works only good in one scenario.

Nevertheless it would be good a 4000K option,5D, SST-20 or LH351D will become available fast for the neutral-warm folks.

good tint: Nichia E21A 2000K-7500K except d240 bin, Nichia 219B sw40/sw45, 219C sw303, Cree XPL-HI A/D bins, XHP70.2 5A, Samsung shaved LH351D's, SST-20 FD2, FA3, HA3, .

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
Ryzbor wrote:
Even the highest CRI and R9 is useless without a good tint, and Maukka’s measurements of the SST-20 aren’t really optimistic.

I wasn’t aware that sunlight being above the BBL made it “useless” as a light source. Aesthetically preferring one tint over another doesn’t diminish the color accuracy of a particular LED.

I would clarify that tint can be an element of color accuracy – exaggerating green (or pink for that matter) reduces how accurately the viewer perceives a scene. If you’re checking a sleeping child for a healthy complexion, for example, excess green is unwelcome.

But lacking in red can be an even more significant accuracy issue. I’d say whether it’s more important than excess green can be use dependent, but for me personally, good red rendering is usually a higher priority.

Skin and wood tones are classic examples. As a more extreme case, I remember when I got my first high CRI light, and shining it and a low CRI light of a similar color temperature around a dark room to compare.

The low CRI light happened across an orange mug with a mottled finish – It caught my attention because I didn’t recall us owning any mug so ugly. I switched lights and a familiar red mug appeared. The color of that particular piece of ceramic was so red-dominant that even a familiar object was difficult to recognize under a low CRI light.

All things considered, if Lumintop is willing to do two versions, I think the plans for a higher CCT, lower CRI option with a known good tint bin, and a lower CCT, higher CRI option are the right compromise for the widest range of users possible, even though we will probably get a compromise on the tint of the latter.

DUV +0.002 to +0.004 seems common with the LH351D. I recently put an LH351D that AED measured at around +0.004 in a Convoy, and that confirms for me I’m willing to accept that level above the BBL as a trade for high CRI.

BlueSwordM
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What LED was in the 98CRI light?

Beam profile of the XP-L HI might be something different.

IMO, having the XP-L HI 5D in the GT Mini vs the SST-20 4000k/3500k in my TK15, the TK15 makes everything pop and looks super realistic.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Ryzbor
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Quad Nichia E21A in a unfortunate (too high) flux bin causing it to be green, D240. The lower D220 and mixed CCT’s are more than fine. This led would be great in the FWA3 with a 20mm TIR or even in triple setup for some range, but that would require removing the mosfet (potential issues?) or changing the firmware since a quad E21A can take about 8A maximum.

Edit: it’s CRI:98 and R9:98.

good tint: Nichia E21A 2000K-7500K except d240 bin, Nichia 219B sw40/sw45, 219C sw303, Cree XPL-HI A/D bins, XHP70.2 5A, Samsung shaved LH351D's, SST-20 FD2, FA3, HA3, .

zak.wilson
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It takes some habituation to high-CRI lights to become a CRI baby. Some people never get there, remaining mere tint snobs for life. Other misguided souls care only about output.

There are a lot of us who are quite sure we want a high-CRI option. If Cree offered the XP-L HI in 5D, 90 CRI, most of us would be entirely satisfied with that being the high-CRI option. There is no 70 CRI tint nice enough to convince the CRI babies, me included to give up that much spectrum.

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Tally-ho
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Why this aversion for green even if human eyes are more perceptive to it ?
Do you remember when you was a child and didn’t want to eat green vegetables but prefered to eat fried potatoes, pasta, rice, etc.

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I’m with the high CRI gang even if slightly green.

BurningPlayd0h
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Ryzbor wrote:
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
I wasn’t aware that sunlight being above the BBL made it “useless” as a light source. Aesthetically preferring one tint over another doesn’t diminish the color accuracy of a particular LED.

Sunlight and led light from a torch are incomparable even if the have similar parameters simply due to the angle and the sheer difference in the amount of light.

I’ve let some people, “aware flashlight users”, not enthusiast, compare a R9898 duv +0.001 flashlight to the CRI80 XPL-HI 5D duv -0.002 (or less) from the D4 and almost all of them preferred the 5D so I’m pretty sure of my point.

And of course in woodland positive duv doesn’t really matter and a 219C will look better than a 5D, but I can’t afford buying a flashlight that works only good in one scenario.

Nevertheless it would be good a 4000K option,5D, SST-20 or LH351D will become available fast for the neutral-warm folks.

Again, there’s the issue… preference for a certain tint does not mean the emitters will be any better at illuminating things and letting you see them as easily/accurately as possible.

“only works good in one scenario”, so implying it doesn’t work as well in any other which you haven’t provided a single reason for beyond not liking the tint.

I’ve certainly never needed to identify colors anywhere other than the woods. /s

Personally I think the whole tint vs CRI argument is completely moot since -green filters exist. It should be a consideration of beam profile/max output/efficiency vs high CRI.

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People have different likes, so it is a good thing there are leds with different characteristics.

I have gone from wanting every lumen possible with almost no regard to color of the light or the CRI. Then I began to favor led’s with 4K to 5K color temperature and I found some had undesirable edge colors when shone on a white wall. After realizing we had very few actual white walls I began to appreciate leds with higher CRI. Now my EDC has a high CRI. But I still have a couple lumen ‘kings’ that are less color true, but very bright.

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Tom Tom
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We’ll get what we are given, maybe one day.

Neal has had every opportunity to up his game and source the then desired alternative LEDs, told us that he had done so. Turned out to be un-true.

Likewise failure to source basic stuff like optics in good time. Maybe down to him, maybe not.

Nor willingness/decency to arrange for prototypes to be sent to those who matter.

No confidence in his ability to eventually get these out to BLF or TLF lists in an orderly manner. Or cope. Expect a free-for-all.

But I dare say he will try to take his cut however it works out. AFAIK he is just a drop-shipper, little physical presence. He seems to be a chancer with little real positive contribution, perhaps the opposite, but somehow seems to have inserted himself and become key to this project.

Suggestion to Lumintop: cut out the middleman, make these once you have all the bits and are confident in the product (maybe send some more out to selected others for final checks, a little more delay is not going to matter in the grand scheme of things), distribute through serious distributors who have all the procedures in place worldwide, and know how to manage a big list. Banggood, Gearbest etc. And can manage returns etc.

Unique codes per listee, valid for say 50 days, then open it up. Meanwhile also sell at full price by all means.

Otherwise it’s all looking very mickey-mouse.

Apologies if I have mis-judged him.

This could be an enduring money-spinner, capable of future development, but it’s already getting old, even if it delivers tomorrow. And some on the lists may already have run out of patience, don’t rely on all of us to order.

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Yeah, yeah. You don’t like Neal. We know.

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Tom Tom wrote:
We’ll get what we are given, maybe one day.

Neal has had every opportunity to up his game and source the then desired alternative LEDs, told us that he had done so. Turned out to be un-true.

Likewise failure to source basic stuff like optics in good time. Maybe down to him, maybe not.

Nor willingness/decency to arrange for prototypes to be sent to those who matter.

No confidence in his ability to eventually get these out to BLF or TLF lists in an orderly manner. Or cope. Expect a free-for-all.

But I dare say he will try to take his cut however it works out. AFAIK he is just a drop-shipper, little physical presence. He seems to be a chancer with little real positive contribution, perhaps the opposite, but somehow seems to have inserted himself and become key to this project.

Suggestion to Lumintop: cut out the middleman, make these once you have all the bits and are confident in the product (maybe send some more out to selected others for final checks, a little more delay is not going to matter in the grand scheme of things), distribute through serious distributors who have all the procedures in place worldwide, and know how to manage a big list. Banggood, Gearbest etc. And can manage returns etc.

Unique codes per listee, valid for say 50 days, then open it up. Meanwhile also sell at full price by all means.

Otherwise it’s all looking very mickey-mouse.

Apologies if I have mis-judged him.

This could be an enduring money-spinner, capable of future development, but it’s already getting old, even if it delivers tomorrow. And some on the lists may already have run out of patience, don’t rely on all of us to order.

There you go again, Tom Tom, you and your wet mouth.

It looked like like you only “behaved” for a ‘very long’ week (in your case) before showing your true self again.

You don’t have any idea who Neal is, and up to what extent is his only role and participation in this FW3A project is, yet you are (mis)judging him already.

“Apologies if I have mis-judged him.” – no need for this if only you only used even a fraction of your brain before blurting out those uncalled for accusations.

I strongly suggest you cease reading and posting in this thread.

Your comments are the last thing the project wants.

Lumintop, Neal, and the FW3A team DO NOT deserve such bone-headed comments.

They may have their lapses, like all of us do…but to have this project delayed up to now is NOT one of them.

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Tom Tom
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Noted.

But a little direct communication from someone seeming to be a key player would be appreciated by many I think.

A situation report. Every now and then.

Defence of a friend is laudable, but I don’t know him so can only judge him by his public actions and track-record, which I have observed for many years, and had personal unsatisfactory dealings. So yes, I might have a bias, but try not to let that colour my judgement. Everyone deserves a second, even third chance.

It is unfair to expect e.g. TK| to step up to be the only conduit of information here, that’s even when she has some.

Fritz seems to have disappeared long ago, but was never communicative even before then.

I have no idea who is still running this thing, if anyone ?

This is not how we like to do things in the West. Straight talking is what we respect.

So, if either of you know what’s really going on, tell us, or if not, say so. You appear to have some inside knowledge. No disgrace in saying what you know, or don’t know, it would be welcomed I’m sure.

Simple stuff, how close is it, what remains to be done, what obstacles are being actively managed (procurement etc.) what plans are then in place to deliver ?

A little reliable communication can go a long way. Far better than just sitting on difficulties.

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Tom Tom wrote:
Noted.

But a little direct communication from someone seeming to be a key player would be appreciated by many I think.

A situation report. Every now and then.

Defence of a friend is laudable, but I don’t know him so can only judge him by his public actions and track-record, which I have observed for many years, and had personal unsatisfactory dealings. So yes, I might have a bias, but try not to let that colour my judgement. Everyone deserves a second, even third chance.

It is unfair to expect e.g. TK| to step up to be the only conduit of information here, that’s even when she has some.

Fritz seems to have disappeared long ago, but was never communicative even before then.

I have no idea who is still running this thing, if anyone ?

This is not how we like to do things in the West. Straight talking is what we respect.

So, if either of you know what’s really going on, tell us, or if not, say so. You appear to have some inside knowledge. No disgrace in saying what you know, or don’t know, it would be welcomed I’m sure.

Simple stuff, how close is it, what remains to be done, what obstacles are being actively managed (procurement etc.) what plans are then in place to deliver ?

A little reliable communication can go a long way. Far better than just sitting on difficulties.


Or….

You can sit back and eventually it will go on sale and then you can decide whether to buy it or not.

If you do buy it, you sit back again and it will show up.

Relax mon.
Don’t worry, be happy. Cool


.
Tom Tom
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Been waiting far too long, and have others that do the same or better. Lighting up a generic triple is not difficult, nor is packaging it nicely. Off the shelf, or custom, easy.

Fancy tail e-switch with all the ensuing complications, well I wanted to be convinced, but still haven’t been yet. Particularly since it still hasn’t been delivered. Uglification of body also added. Only redeeming features keeping me here are the interesting driver and the firmware. And cheaper than making my own.

But that’s just me.

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Is there a way to set my account to ignore all posts from a single user? I’m just tired… So unnecessarily toxic.

I looked around on the link to the account in question and on this page and couldn’t find an ignore style feature.

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gregfortune wrote:

Is there a way to set my account to ignore all posts from a single user? I’m just tired… So unnecessarily toxic.

I looked around on the link to the account in question and on this page and couldn’t find an ignore style feature.

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1438048#comment-1438048

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Tom Tom wrote:
Noted. But a little direct communication from someone seeming to be a key player would be appreciated by many I think. A situation report. Every now and then. Defence of a friend is laudable, but I don't know him so can only judge him by his public actions and track-record, which I have observed for many years, and had personal unsatisfactory dealings. So yes, I might have a bias, but try not to let that colour my judgement. Everyone deserves a second, even third chance. It is unfair to expect e.g. TK| to step up to be the only conduit of information here, that's even when she has some. Fritz seems to have disappeared long ago, but was never communicative even before then. I have no idea who is still running this thing, if anyone ? This is not how we like to do things in the West. Straight talking is what we respect. So, if either of you know what's really going on, tell us, or if not, say so. You appear to have some inside knowledge. No disgrace in saying what you know, or don't know, it would be welcomed I'm sure. Simple stuff, how close is it, what remains to be done, what obstacles are being actively managed (procurement etc.) what plans are then in place to deliver ? A little reliable communication can go a long way. Far better than just sitting on difficulties.
  • It's probably pretty tough to post here from China, dude.
  • How good is your accounting of what is Neal's fault, and what was out of his control? I wasn't there but I have a feeling you weren't really there either
  • Fritz, if he's around, is probably around on the German forum, which is where this light originated. (It's probably pretty egotistical of us at BLF to act otherwise, but that's another story)

This is Fritz's light project, and Lumintop has been nice enough to build a light for enthusiasts that's actually more challenging than your average light. We can appreciate this, wait, and realize that everyone on the enthusiast side of things is not getting paid for any of this or you can continue your entitled attitude and toxic posting. If you're really so fed up with the wait and whatever details of the light and the communication, I'd be happy to consider participating in the group buy you run. I also think constructive criticism is super useful here, but you're just whining. It gold old dozens of pages ago.

JasonWW wrote:
Yeah, yeah. You don't like Neal. We know.

Thank you. I needed a good chuckle.

raccoon city wrote:

[...]http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1438048#comment-1438048

Tom Tom should keep that in his signature.

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Tom Tom wrote:
Been waiting far too long, and have others that do the same or better. Lighting up a generic triple is not difficult, nor is packaging it nicely. Off the shelf, or custom, easy.

Fancy tail e-switch with all the ensuing complications, well I wanted to be convinced, but still haven’t been yet. Particularly since it still hasn’t been delivered. Uglification of body also added. Only redeeming features keeping me here are the interesting driver and the firmware. And cheaper than making my own.

But that’s just me.

That sounds like a “personal problem”.

If you had prepaid for the light, been promised something in a contract or otherwise made a concrete investment in it I could see you having an issue.

I’ve waited 12 years to play Halo 3 on PC and you don’t see me beating a dead horse since I have to wait a few more months. Big Smile

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I know just enough about what’s been going on behind the scenes to know Tom is only saying things others are too polite to say. Neal isn’t a flawless saint just because he sources flashlight discounts for BLF, and there’s no excuse for how he’s handled many aspects of the FW3A development and production. Do we need regular Tom Tom misery posts to remind us? Probably not, but don’t act like he’s just making it all up.

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Bob_McBob wrote:

I know just enough about what's been going on behind the scenes to know Tom is only saying things others are too polite to say. Neal isn't a flawless saint just because he sources flashlight discounts for BLF, and there's no excuse for how he's handled many aspects of the FW3A development and production. Do we need regular Tom Tom misery posts to remind us? Probably not, but don't act like he's just making it all up.

He's being a Negative Nancy over and over again.

He is someone that is excessively and disagreeably pessimistic.

BLF doesn't need any Negative Nancys, and his horrible posts should be reported.

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Can Lumintop add built in USB charging to this light?

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agent80 wrote:
Can Lumintop add built in USB charging to this light?

No.

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